Sunday, October 09, 2005

Differing Definitions

We often hear what we want to hear when another person speaks. Specifically, in the Fatwah Against Terror, we hear the condemnation of targeting innocent civilians. But what does innocent mean?

Al-Zarqawi has provided a definition in Islam permits killing of “infidel" civilians, Zarqawi tape, (AFP)8 October 2005:

"DUBAI - Al Qaeda frontman in Iraq Abu Musab Al Zarqawi has said Islam permits the killing of 'infidel' civilians, according to an audiotape broadcast on the Internet early Saturday.

“'In Islam, making the difference is not based on civilians and military, but on the basis of Muslims and infidels,' said the voice attributed to the fugitive leader who has a 25-million-dollar price on his head.

“'The Muslim’s blood cannot be spilled whatever his work or place, while spilling the blood of the infidel, whatever his work or place, is authorized if he is not trustworthy,' said the tape, whose veracity could not be determined.

"The recording comes a day after US officials claimed to have seized a letter allegedly sent to Zarqawi by Al Qaeda number two Ayman Zawahiri, in which he raised concerns over the impact on Arab opinion of videotaped executions.

"Zarqawi, a Jordanian-born Islamist extremist, is Iraq’s most wanted man.

"His Al Qaeda Group of Jihad in the Land of Two Rivers has claimed responsibility for some of the most gruesome attacks in Iraq, including the beheadings of foreign hostages and Iraqis."
Zarqawi's words indicate a definition which differs from a Western one and help to explain why after 9/11 many Muslims literally danced for joy. Those who died here on 9/11--the men, women, and children we perceived to be innocent victims, were not innocent in the eyes of Islam.

[Read more commentary about Zarqawi's words from Pastorius and at Jihad Watch. The latter has extensive comments.]

Certainly, Islamic extremists define innocent in the same way as Zarqawi. According to Ali Hussain, investigative reporter for London's Sunday Times, as reported by Daniel Pipes:
"Ali joined the Saviour Sect in June, a few weeks before the 7/7 bombings and took along his tape recorder. What he heard is hair-raising – it is imperative for Muslims to 'instil terror into the hearts of the kuffar [infidels],' 'I am a terrorist. As a Muslim, of course I am a terrorist,' 'They will build tall buildings and we will bring them down,' the bombings were 'a good start' and Allah should 'bless those involved.'

"He also heard two speakers discuss whom they consider to be innocent.

"Zachariah, referring to the London passengers: 'They're kuffar [infidels]. They're not people who are innocent. The people who are innocent are the people who are with us or those who are living under the Islamic state.'

"Omar Bakri Mohammed, the sect's leader, who publicly condemned the deaths of 'innocents,' but at the Selby Centre in Wood Green, north London, on July 22 referred to the 7/7 bombers as the 'fantastic four' and explained that his grief for the 'innocent' applied only to Muslims.

"'Yes I condemn killing any innocent people, but not any kuffar.'"
In an interview about a month later, Omar Bakri Mohammed elaborated on the his interpretation of innocence when he was interviewed in Lebanon:
"(Q) You said that you are against killing innocent people and have nothing to do with the Al-Qaeda Organization. Now you are calling for jihad. How do you explain your position?

"(A) I have often repeated that I am against the killing of innocent people anywhere in the world but who are the innocent? I keep the answer to myself.

"(Q) Who do you define as innocent?

"(A) The innocent people are specified by Islam. I denounce killing innocent people regardless of who kills them. However, who are the innocent? I do not have to explain this issue.

"(Q) Does this mean that you support killing those whom you consider guilty and those whom Islam as you understand it describes as not innocent?

"(A) I support what the Sunni Muslim youths in Lebanon believe in.
If innocent has a different definition, does peace also have another meaning? According to Robert Spencer's The Politically Incorrect Guide to Islam (and the Crusades), as found on page 25:
"Mainstream and respected Qur'an commentator, Isma'il bin Amr bin Kathir al Dimashqi (1301-1372), known popularly as Ibn Kathir, declares that sura 9:5 [the last section of the Qur'an to be revealed] 'abrogated every agreement of peace between the Prophet and any idolater, every treaty, and every term....No idolater had an more treaty of promise of safety ever since Surah Bara'ah was revealed.'"
Spencer also points out the following important information (pages 41-42):
"...Sayyid Qutb, one of the twentieth century's foremost adocates of violent jihad, taught (without a trace of irony) that Islam is a religion of peace. However, he had a very specific kind of peace in mind: 'When Islam strives for peace, its objective is not that superficial peace which requires that only that part of the earth where the followers of Islam are residing remain secure. The peace which Islam desires is that the religion (i.e., the law of the society) be purified for God, that the obedience of all people be for God alone, and that some people should not be lords over others. After the period of the Prophet--peace be on him--only the final stages of the movement of Jihaad are to be followed; the initial or middle stages are not applicable.'

"In other words, Islam is a relgion of the peace that will come when everyone is Muslim or at least subject to the Islamic state. And to establish that peace, Muslims must wage war."
A few additional quotations from the mouth of the enemy:
"We have the right to kill 4 million Americans, two million of them children."
-Abu Gheith, Al-Qaeda spokesman

"If a bomb was dropped on them that would annihilate 10 million and burn their lands…this is permissible."
-Sheikh Nasir bin Hamid al-Fahd, prominent Saudi cleric close to Al-Qaeda

"Our march has just begun and Islam will end up conquering Europe and America. . . And let no one think that we are Utopian dreamers."
-Sheikh Saeed Shaaban, quoted in L'Orient le jour, Beirut, 19 October 1983

"A believer...who takes up a gun, a dagger, a kitchen knife or even a pebble with which to harm and kill the enemies of the Faith has his place assured in Heaven. An Islamic state is the sum total of such individual believers. An Islamic state is a state of war until the whole world sees and accepts the light of the True Faith."
-Ayatollah Fazl-Allah Mahalati, On the Path of Justice, Tehran, 1980, pp. 70-71
Words matter. Pay attention to what the enemy has said. And know the enemy's definitions of the words.

Once you are aware of the subtleties of definitions and of the concept of Sura 9:5, you just might have a different take on this statement from CAIR , posted in 2001, and on the 2005 Fatwah Against Terror.

50 Comments:

At 10/09/2005 5:53 PM, Blogger beakerkin said...

How many liberals talk about 3/5 endlessly ? Yet these same people say 0 about 1/2 rules in Sharia that are applied today.

 
At 10/09/2005 6:13 PM, Blogger Mr. Beamish the Instablepundit said...

Infidels aren't even considered human in Islam. Muslims can't attach any moral distinctions to people "Allah" specifically created for their killsport.

 
At 10/09/2005 6:14 PM, Blogger Pastorius said...

"We have the right to kill 4 million Americans, two million of them children."
-Abu Gheith, Al-Qaeda spokesman


I don't know if you've ever seen it on CUANAS, but I have repeatedly pointed out that the reason they claim they have the "right to kill 4 million Americans is because that's how many of their people we have killed according to their tally. In addition, they specifically sought and RECEIVED a fatwa declaring that they have the right to do so.

World Net Daily has been running this series about the upcoming "American Hiroshima." Many of us take it with a grain of salt, because WND is known to be an alarmist site. I don't know what to think. It's hard to believe that they would dare hit us with nuclear weapons.

But, the thing is, they've got the Fatwa. Why would they have bothered to go to the trouble if they didn't intend to follow through on it?

 
At 10/09/2005 6:15 PM, Blogger Pastorius said...

Great post, by the way. I actually think that this post is one of the best and most important posts I have seen in a long time. Great job.

 
At 10/09/2005 6:43 PM, Blogger Always On Watch said...

Beak,
And here's another problem...The percentage of peaceful verses really doesn't matter because almost all the peaceful verses came before the abrogation thereof. I believe the contrast can be summed up by pointing out that the Medinan verses, the later verses, repudiated the Meccan verses, the earlier and peaceful ones. Add to that change in tone the organization of the Koran, which not presented in chronological order, but rather in order of length of chapters. I account for that rather odd organization by realizing that Arabic has not past tense as Westerners understand the term-- one big continuum of time. Nothing is ever over and done with.

You are correct when you point out that liberals don't want to discuss Shari'a law.

 
At 10/09/2005 6:46 PM, Blogger Always On Watch said...

Mr. Beamish,
Infidels are referred to as apes and pigs, I believe. Of course, Jews are condemned in the worst of terms.

Killsport? Yes, that's one way of looking at it. And the killing elevates the jihadist to a special status in Paradise.

 
At 10/09/2005 6:54 PM, Blogger Always On Watch said...

Pastorius,
Thank you for the compliment. I felt driven to complete this article.

I keep an eye on WND. As you put it, it's an alarmist site. Nevertheless, WND occasionally breaks an important hard-news story ignored by other media. Are they wrong about "American Heroshima"? A friend of mine says not. And my friend is not a fellow blogger, but rather a very informed, level-headed person. When I first began my mission to comment on events I was observing, he was surprised that I knew so much. He says, "They will bomb us back to the Stone Age." In fact, it was he who first mentioned the nuclear destruction, but he didn't get the information from WND.

From what I know of them, the fatwahs are consistent--if one understands the coded language, which I attempted to explicate a bit in this blog article.

 
At 10/09/2005 6:55 PM, Blogger Always On Watch said...

Pastorius,
I haven't yet touched upon taqiyya nor hudna. Those are also interesting Islamic concepts, important for Westerners to understand.

 
At 10/09/2005 7:24 PM, Blogger Esther said...

Briliant post, AOW!!! Really well done.

Nothing is ever over and done with.

Absolutely. That's why they bombed Madrid. They once had it and see it as always theirs. So what you said makes a lot of sense.

 
At 10/09/2005 8:16 PM, Blogger beakerkin said...

I am wondering what a good shrink would say about a paradise with 72 virgins. I guess you would need 72 women if you were a clown. While you do nothing they can talk to each other.

One is enough for me.

 
At 10/09/2005 9:23 PM, Blogger samwich said...

Beaker, the 72 virgins MUST remain virgins.
S

 
At 10/09/2005 10:28 PM, Anonymous Felis said...

"In Islam, making the difference is not based on civilians and military, but on the basis of Muslims and infidels"

This is very true.
The Holy Qur'an says on mane occasions that ALL disbelievers are evil and there fore they cannot be innocent:
"2:254 O ye who believe! spend of that wherewith We have provided you ere a day come when there will be no trafficking, nor friendship, nor intercession. The disbelievers, they are the wrong-doers."

 
At 10/10/2005 5:16 AM, Blogger beakerkin said...

Samwitch

That response has me in stitches.

 
At 10/10/2005 5:18 AM, Blogger Mark said...

By refusing to define the enemy - Islam - clearly, Mr. Average in the street is quite ill-informed about the dangers Islam poses, and about what need there is for George Bush and his administration to wage any kind of war.

I compare this situation with the one during WWII. In those days, EVERYONE was well-aware of the dangers Nazism posed. Each and everyone knew the nature of that enemy, too.

We are trying to win this war with our hands tied firmly behind our backs! Nobody wants to say who the real enemy is; and one gets the feeling that the people at the top are unsure of their steps. Nobody wants to cast aspersions on the enemy, either; moreover, we, the attacked, are making excuses for the enemy at each and every turn! How ridiculous is that? And where will that get us? Not very far, I fear!

 
At 10/10/2005 7:54 AM, Blogger LASunsett said...

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At 10/10/2005 11:22 AM, Blogger Gindy said...

"“'In Islam, making the difference is not based on civilians and military, but on the basis of Muslims and infidels,' "

This one sentence says a lot to me. And this doesn't seem to be a rare point of view. It is because of statements like this.....

"' 'I am a terrorist. As a Muslim, of course I am a terrorist,' "

....that I am going to take Romney serious for President if he runs in '08. He wants to monitor people that preach murder. Of course, when he said that all of the usual suspects freaked out. The amazing thing is that Europe seems to be very exposed to this type of hatred and yet they are doing very little to conquer the problem that is basically out in the open(I think).

 
At 10/10/2005 1:40 PM, Blogger G_in_AL said...

"(A) I have often repeated that I am against the killing of innocent people anywhere in the world but who are the innocent? I keep the answer to myself.

Says it all right there... outstanding post AOW.

 
At 10/10/2005 1:57 PM, Blogger Shah Alexander said...

I wonder if these radical Muslims know their own history. The glory of the Saracenian Empire in the Middle Age owes a lot to Jewish and Christians. As you may know, there are Christian minorities in the Middle East, such as Maronites in Lebanon and Syria, Coptic in Egypt, and Assyrians in Iraq. Although their Christianity is completely different from that in the West, they played an important role in cross-cultural affairs.

It was Jewish and minority Christians who translated Greco-Roman academic works into Arabic. This is the key to the heyday of the Islamic civilization.

Probably, Zarqawi and his supporters do not take pride in their own history. They should go back to school to learn the real Islamic history.

Of course, not madrasa!

 
At 10/10/2005 3:44 PM, Blogger American Crusader said...

Its amazing how the Koran can be used to justify just about anything. Anything that could be seen to possibly promote Islam or to be good for Islam is permissible. Lying, deception, betrayal even murder can be justified by the Koran. Hell,you can even renounce your faith. A God not worth dying for is not worth living for.

 
At 10/10/2005 9:16 PM, Blogger Always On Watch said...

To All,
Thank you for stopping by. I appreciate all your comments. I will try to respond individually to each one when I can find the time. I've got a few very busy days ahead of me.

I will be leaving up this article for some time, in the hopes that it will receive wider circulation. Thank you again, Esther, for linking to it.

In the meantime, while I am so consumed with my teaching duties, I urge everyone to visit this site:
www.librabunda.blogspot.com/
Mark has excellent and important information.

I also encourage you to visit "American Crusader," whose comment is directly above this one.

Another excellent site is
www.pedestrianinfidel.blogspot.com

 
At 10/10/2005 9:46 PM, Anonymous GM Roper said...

Any "faith" that subborns murder of anyone cannot be called anything but what it is... and Religion of Peace it doesn't seem to be, though many of its adherents may be.

Those folk need to rise up and git rid of the fanatics and their supporters.

I won't hold my breath.

Great post!!!

 
At 10/10/2005 10:03 PM, Blogger Esther said...

LA, you had me rolling over that one. Don't forget the book about the evil of ice cream cones and Burger King... and was it Nike too?

You're very welcome AOW. :)

 
At 10/10/2005 10:30 PM, Blogger Romeocat said...

*Stupendous* post, AOW! Very informative, and I cannot tell you how much I appreciate you sharing your knowledge with us. We are in your debt.

Linked at my site, friend... Keep up the EXCELLENT work!

-- R'cat
CatHouse Chat

 
At 10/10/2005 11:56 PM, Blogger samwich said...

Mitt Romney:
The Rich Got Richer and
The Poor Got Poorer Witt Mitt!

Get Poor Witt Mitt!!!

S...for now this clown

 
At 10/11/2005 10:32 AM, Blogger Mr. Ducky said...

Samwich.....this was supposed to be a thread about the imminent bombing of our cities and the subsequent invasion by Syrian paratroopers. However, Mitt is a far more entertaining topic than that delusional xenophobia.

I ask you...can he get away with being governor of the state that legalized gay marriage, mandated availability of emergency contraception for rape cases in all hospitals and legalized embryonic stem cell research. The religious far right isn't going to let him say he was sitting on his hands during all this, are they?

 
At 10/11/2005 2:59 PM, Blogger samwich said...

Duck, you got me there! I put that there hoping you'd see it.

First off about Mormonism is that mortal life has a purpose.
We are all here to choose either to live by every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God or choose to follow our own desires.
"The days of our probation"

Mitt Romeny wants the "vain things" of the world. He is "better" than we are and therefore fit to rule us.

The way of the world.

Just like John Kerry is a Catholic and told the Catholic church about abortion.
He personally opposed it but he was a public servant and the public demanded abortion rights
so he supports it.
If he was against it and voted against it he would be the FORMER Senator from Massachusettes.
He wants to keep his position and status in the ruling class's "we are better than you club".

Same for Ornament Orrin Hatch.

I go back to my position that when Christ fasted and was tempted, He was offered any kingdom on earth if he would worship Lucifer.

This did not end with the Clinton Administration.

If Romney were indeed spiritually "fit to rule", he would be called to serve in Church Headquarters in Salt Lake City.
Read up on King Benjamin in the Book of Mormon. And Gadianton Robbers.

On the Mormon Doctrine level, the guy is batting "all of the tinsel and sham outward appearances" of mormonism but he has missed the meat of the deal. He thinks he's better than we are.

In all of creation there are checks and balances. I claim the right to receive Revelation from God. Direct Communication from Him personally to know what is right and what is wrong, ie good from evil.

My political activism is supposed to support Republican values and I would whole heartedly support Republicans so well it would make Bubba look like a democrat IF THE LOUSY SOB'S WERE NOT SUCH FLAGRANT LIARS AND HYPOCRITES.

Here's where I get credit for being crazy:
Washington State Republicans are supported by the mormon vote. IF, IF, IF, mormons block vote republican the republicans win. If any stray to the Libertarian camp in any significant numbers democrats win. I know the republcans for what they really are
and I get divine inspiration to neutralize the mormon vote here.

Gregoire won by 99 votes. I was her back door campaign manager bully. I was the right wing nut case who stalked her by notifying Washington State Democrat Party HQ's how I would convince the voters to elect Rossi.

Clue: when a military field commander lays his battle plan open in front of the enmy,he gets his butt kicked.

I am the best "Campaign Suppoort Organization Motivator" she ever had. The Democrats built a "wall of protection" around her with their checkbooks and foot soldiers.

Mitt Romney is going to lose his bid for the White House. He may be a chosen candidate to push the "not religiuos" swing vote to Hillary. All the BIG money is on Hillary 2008. Romney may be a sacrificial horse's katootsie.

Now get that catchy little slogan to your State Dem HQ's. If they thnk it will help, they'll use it.

Romney has the same "right of agency" all who walk the earth have, he gets to make his own choices.

1 Nephi 10:20
Therefore remember, O man, for all thy doings thou shalt be brought into judgement.

He also gets to sit down to his own "banquet of consequences" for his actions and doings and the result of them.

I would not vote for Romney for Sewer Commissioner.

2002, R got within 800 votes of unseating D in Utah's 2nd Congressional District.
Hatch and Bennet sold me out in a conspiracy to obstuct justice for political favor from Boeing.
2004, R got within 15,600 votes of unseating D and forever forfieted any opportunity to win the 2nd District. Chimp had proclaimed the 2nd district "America's Most Winnable Congressional District".

I told Democrat Matheson he had better move every libtard in Utah into his district and register them to vote there. He did. Swallow lost again.

S...hardprest762x51mm@yahoo.com
please, so we don't clutter up AOW's blog

 
At 10/11/2005 6:43 PM, Blogger Kender said...

If the American Hiroshima comes to pass, as I believe it will, Mecca, along with Medina, should perish under a clouds that makes Hiroshima and Nagasaki appear as if God was just dragging his toe in the dirt.

If we are attacked by nukes, I will be the first calling forthe people of the U.S. to rise up against those "peaceful" muslims here, as at that point their inactivity will have been partly responsible for the attack, and if the muslims are not rounded up and encamped for their own protection and perhaps even deportation, then their safety, or lack thereof, will be upon their heads.

We can call for our own jihad.

If Osama believes that islam can win against the west, (because he believes us weak, when in fact it is simply that we are far more tolerant and slower to truly anger), then he will be mightily surprised when muslims are being dragged through the streets behind cars in places like L.A. and Detroit.

It really is a war we are in, and soon America will wake up and realize that the Military is not the only ones that need to literally fight.

Ready yourselves for battle folks. When they do detonate a nuke here, all bets are off, the gloves shall be thrown down and it will become the last holy war.

 
At 10/11/2005 10:14 PM, Blogger beakerkin said...

Always

I have to check my sources but Zarqawi is no Jordanian . He is one of the far lefts favorite faux indigenous people the Palestinians.
This is another part of the shell game the media plays with us.

Ducky isn't time for you to head to Cuba for the winter. Fidel said he would leave the light on for you. Unfortunately , there is sporadic electicity thanks to the efficiency of your friendly local Marxists.

 
At 10/12/2005 1:18 AM, Blogger Mr. Beamish the Instablepundit said...

A terrorist force that expends itself on suicide attacks will not retain organizational memory - the group literally becomes dumber as the experienced die off.

The one thing that assures our victory is that they want to die and go to their great bisexual orgy in the sky, while we want to tell our grandkids how we kicked somebody's ass.

 
At 10/12/2005 8:36 AM, Blogger Always On Watch said...

To all commenters:
Sorry that my responses to you are delayed.

My TV is on the fritz (sound, but nothing except wavy lines for an image), so tonight I have to go shopping for a replacement. I loathe shopping!

 
At 10/12/2005 9:26 PM, Anonymous Lisa Gilliam said...

And these are the people the left in this country and in Europe side with?!they are completely stupid and ignorant to say the least.Although I've never read Mr. Spencer's book, he is write when he mentions the importance of words and their meanings.More Americans need to watch CAIR and these other groups because they are very dangerous to us and our way of life,it is a shame that most of the country is too ignorant and lazy to go and find out about these groups and what they are all about and it is even more incumbent on our leaders in Washington to stop ass kissing groups like CAIR and just begin to call a spade a spade.Tell the truth about CAIR and if they holler like hit dogs then that's tough!find out who gives them money and put them on some list banning them from the USA and choke up the financing.

 
At 10/13/2005 5:37 PM, Blogger Always On Watch said...

Lisa,
I've read that at least some of CAIR's funding comes from Saudi Arabia, the bastion of Wahhabism; if I recall correctly, CAIR's Library Project received substantial funding from Saudi. I wonder about the funding for the Qur'an project.

Currently, there is a push in the U. S. Senate regarding curbing the the spread of Wahhabism through various Muslim organizations, including mosques, in the United States. I hope that this measure will also consider scrutiny of Saudi-owned and operated schools, such as the Islamic Saudi Academy in Fairfax County. Ahmed Abu Ali graduated from ISA, and the other day in court, the fact that Abu Ali is extremely anti-Israel was revealed in court. The curriculum of ISA has previously come under scrutiny for being virulently anti-Semitic.

See
http://www.nysun.com/article/20998 :

In response to the Freedom House report and as part of the Saudi Arabia Accountability Act of 2005 sponsored by Senator Specter, a Republican of Pennsylvania, the Judiciary Committee - of which Senator Specter is chairman - will be holding hearings into the hate materials on October 25, a spokesman for the senator, William Reynolds, said yesterday.
The Accountability Act, introduced in June, says its purpose is "to halt Saudi support for institutions that fund, train, incite, encourage, or in any other way aid and abet terrorism, and to secure fully Saudi cooperation in the investigation of terrorist incidents." The legislation is highly critical of the House of Saud for its support of terrorist activity and cites the January Freedom House report as evidence of the kingdom's complicity in the spread of radical Islamist ideology.


We'll see if this bill really comes out of committee! I believe that the pro-Saudi lobby is powerful on Capitol Hill. CAIR is, of course, a powerful lobbying group. But as you pointed out More Americans need to watch CAIR and these other groups because they are very dangerous to us and our way of life.

 
At 10/13/2005 5:40 PM, Blogger Always On Watch said...

Beak,
faux indigenous people the Palestinians.
This is another part of the shell game the media plays with us.


The "Palestinian issue" is used to stir up jihad. Muslim hatred of Jews predates the establishment of the modern nation of Israel.

And never mined that the term itself--"Palestinian"--is a misnomer, to say the least.

 
At 10/13/2005 5:46 PM, Blogger Always On Watch said...

Kender,
If the American Hiroshima comes to pass, as I believe it will, Mecca, along with Medina, should perish under a clouds that makes Hiroshima and Nagasaki appear as if God was just dragging his toe in the dirt.
Sobering words! I want to believe that the idea of American Heroshima is alarmist--it's what I most dread.

Bombing the infidels back to the Stone Age seems to be the goal, doesn't it?

It really is a war we are in.
But many seem more worried about matters which pale in comparison, don't they?

 
At 10/13/2005 5:50 PM, Blogger Always On Watch said...

Samwich,
Thank you for offering Mr. Ducky the option to take up your discussion via email.

The October 17, 2005 edition of Newsweek has a huge spread on Mormonism. Have you seen it? I believe the same material is available @
www.newsweek.com

 
At 10/13/2005 5:54 PM, Blogger Always On Watch said...

LA,
What a comment! LOL!

Guaranteed to be a textbook in your public school system, someday.
But the new editions of world-studies textbooks are busy with the suble whitewash of Islam, in part due to "expert" Susan Douglass, a convert to Wahhabism.

 
At 10/13/2005 11:20 PM, Blogger Always On Watch said...

R'Cat,
Thank you!

 
At 10/13/2005 11:22 PM, Blogger Always On Watch said...

Duck,
Your capacity for hyperbole is entertaining.

 
At 10/13/2005 11:23 PM, Blogger Always On Watch said...

GM,
I haven't yet spotted the stampede of moderates. Have you?

 
At 10/13/2005 11:24 PM, Blogger Always On Watch said...

Mr. Beamish,
the group literally becomes dumber as the experienced die off.
Or more pathological?

 
At 10/14/2005 9:04 AM, Blogger Jason_Pappas said...

Excellent article! One of the most important mistakes Westerners make is to assume the Islamists are using words in the same way as we do – especially as so many people want to believe what they hear. Innocent, peace, tolerance, are all words that mean completely different things when Muslims use them.

It’s interesting how Muslims view the world as Muslims and non-Muslims – the latter which they consider as less than human even if they wouldn’t explicitly put it that way. How often we hear Muslims decry some violent attack on account that Muslims were killed in the attack (as if it would be fine otherwise.) Even Western commentators show signs of understanding the Islamic distinction of Muslim vs. Infidel when they point out that Muslims died in the WTC (as if that now makes it something Muslims can condemn.)

It’s just clear that Islam is a supremacist ideology that threats non-Muslims as less than human. I think there is no other phrase to describe Islam so succinctly.

Once again: good article with many examples and links to other sources!

 
At 10/14/2005 9:07 AM, Blogger Jason_Pappas said...

Interesting typo:

It's just clear that Islam is a supremacist ideology that treats non-Muslims as less than human.

 
At 10/14/2005 3:24 PM, Blogger Always On Watch said...

Jason,
Welcome back! And thank you for the compliment. I'd been thinking for some time about the topic of differing definitions and fleshed out this article with the links. Had I thought of it, I'd have used your article as well.

Some typo! A real Freudian slip, huh?

 
At 10/14/2005 6:49 PM, Blogger Jason_Pappas said...

Yes, quite a slip but not too off the mark. Glad to be back and getting ready to blog again. But first I have to catch up on all that I haven't read.

 
At 10/25/2005 11:58 AM, Blogger Mark said...

Muslims have one worldview; we have another one. These two worldviews are wholy incompatible. When will our politicians and media types come to this realization?

Only the other day, someone said to me that he felt sure that moderate Muslims take exception to terror, too. Moderate Muslims, he felt sure were no different than we are in this respect. How wrong could he be?

It all depends how you define terror. They certainly would not consider the Jihad as terror; though terror is exactly what it is. Even their prophet was not averse to a bit of terror here and there, as we all know. Also he spoke of striking terror into the hearts of the infidel,too.

Some kind of religious man, eh?

 
At 10/25/2005 6:09 PM, Blogger Always On Watch said...

Mark,
Thank you for pointing out the "terror" can also have a different definition.

I'm still awaiting the stampede of moderate Muslims as they "reclaim" their faith.

Last Saturday (October 22) I met an Afghan tribal who has managed to rationalize Islam and, in his own mind, reconcile Islam with Western values. This Afghan was wounded in his efforts to save two men in the U.S. Special Forces. I saw a wistful look in his eyes as we had a brief discussion. He tried to tell me that "Islam is not so different" from other religions. The reception we were attending wasn't the place to have an in-depth discussion, but you know how much I wanted one. Maybe the next time we meet I can pursue the discussion. I will likely see him again at the next VFW reception for wounded soldiers from Walter Reed.

 
At 1/13/2006 9:27 AM, Blogger Mark said...

Always On Watch! Please! I can but take exception! Have you re-read what you have said about bloggers?

And my friend is not a fellow blogger, but rather a very informed, level-headed person.

Do you mean to say that bloggers are not informed and level-headed? Or did you, possibly - just possibly - mean something else? :-)

 
At 1/13/2006 10:34 AM, Blogger Always On Watch said...

Mark,
I get in a "funny mood" sometimes. My cute, little statement has multiple meanings. I'm thinking that you know exactly what I really mean. LOL.

 
At 4/10/2006 2:09 PM, Blogger American Crusader said...

There has always been a large gap between their words and their actions. A large part is definitely do to the difference we have in the definition of "innocent".
The Koran continually condemns people who don't believe it.
A fundamental difference between Christianity and Islam is that while Christianity teaches its followers not to get revenge on others, followers of Islam have no such restrictions placed on them, and so calls for mass uprisings in violent revenge for what they consider to be past wrongs will not necessarily seem unethical to them.

 
At 4/10/2006 2:22 PM, Blogger Always On Watch said...

When Muslims speak of "peace" and "innocents," many Westerners hear what they want to hear.

Shades of 1984, IMO.

One of the most crucial aspects of any debate is to define the terms so that both sides can proceed with proper analysis and rebuttal. But Islam allows for a lot of obfuscation of terminology. "Religion of peace" doesn't mean what Westerners think that it does.

 

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