A Week Of Meetings
(All emphases by Always On Watch)
The front pages of most major newspapers are filled with items such as the following:
"BETHLEHEM, West Bank --How is the rest of the world going to handle Hamas's victory? So far, recognition of Hamas as a legitimate governing force has not happened. According to the Washington Post, the meetings begin this week:
"...Here in the cradle of Christianity, the radical Palestinian movement that favors creation of an Islamic state won every parliamentary seat on Wednesday's ballot except those reserved for Christian candidates -- a lopsided victory duplicated in such secular strongholds as Jerusalem and Ramallah on the organization's way to a majority in the next legislature....
"'I have always believed in a secular Palestinian state, so I would have preferred another result,' Batarseh, a member of the Marxist-oriented Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine, said Friday. 'We have to accept this, whether we like it or not, because it is the will of the people.'
"The electoral triumph by Hamas, an organization that is committed to establishing an Islamic state across territory that includes Israel and whose armed wing has carried out bombings and other attacks on Israeli targets, has had repercussions around the world. It upended the Palestinian political order, complicated peace efforts with Israel and threatened the continuation of financial aid from the United States and other Western countries....
"Arafat is in a tomb in Ramallah, and inside the mayor's waiting room sit two smiling council members from Hamas, sipping tea and celebrating the results...."
"...Officials from the Bush administration, the European Union, Russia and the United Nations are scheduled to meet Monday [January 30, 2006] to begin discussing whether to continue funding a Palestinian government that will include Hamas in a prominent role.Really? Demand that Hamas renounce violence? And what of Hamas's plainly stated agenda? Here are some excerpts from Hamas's charter, from this source (The full version of the charter is here):
"Israel and the Bush administration have demanded that Hamas renounce violence, recognize the Jewish state and disarm its military wing before joining the government...."
"Our struggle against the Jews is very great and very serious...The Movement is but one squadron that should be supported by more and more squadrons from this vast Arab and Islamic world, until the enemy is vanquished and Allah’s victory is realised...Of course, Hamas's recent victory at the polls is but one serious matter facing the prospeccts of peace. Recently, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad of Iran has been spouting saber-rattling rhetoric. Since December 30, 2005, Iran Watch has been keeping a log of news items related to developments in Iran and today informed me in a comment that Iran officially contributes to Hamas some $3 million per year.
"The Islamic Resistance Movement is one of the wings of Muslim Brotherhood in Palestine. The Muslim Brotherhood Movement is a universal organization which constitutes the largest Islamic movement in modern times...
"It strives to raise the banner of Allah over every inch of Palestine, for under the wing of Islam followers of all religions can coexist in security and safety where their lives, possessions and rights are concerned...
"The Islamic Resistance Movement is one of the links in the chain of the struggle against the Zionist invaders. It goes back to 1939, to the emergence of the martyr Izz al-Din al Kassam and his brethren the fighters, members of Muslim Brotherhood. It goes on to reach out and become one with another chain that includes the struggle of the Palestinians and Muslim Brotherhood in the 1948 war and the Jihad operations of the Muslim Brotherhood in 1968 and after...
"The Prophet, Allah bless him and grant him salvation, has said: ‘The Day of Judgement will not come about until Muslims fight the Jews (killing the Jews), when the Jew will hide behind stones and trees. The stones and trees will say O Muslims, O Abdulla, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him...’ "
According to Pim's Ghost over at What Would Charles Martel Do?, Ahmadinejad has called for the destruction of both Israel and the United States:
"'Is it possible for us to witness a world without America and Zionism?' he asked. 'But you had best know that this slogan and this goal are attainable, and surely can be achieved.'"How is the rest of the world preparing to deal with Iran? The U. N. Security Council will meet on February 2-3. One can hope that this week's meetings on Hamas and Iran will yield some fruits, and certainly all diplomatic options should be kept open. But meetings are often pathetic substitutes for appropriate action.
In the meantime, according to this source.
"U.N. nuclear chief Mohamed ElBaradei on Friday [January 27, 2006] called on the United States to provide Iran with nuclear reactors and urged Tehran to declare a moratorium on enriching uranium for at least eight years.A carrot? As in appeasement? What carrot can the West offer as long as we are economically dependent on oil?
"ElBaradei said that amountof time would enable the country to earn the confidence of the international community that it was really interested in nuclear energy not nuclear weapons....
"However, Ivan Safranchuk, a Russian analyst, cautioned that Iran might be using the plan only to buy time as it fights to avoid potential U.N. sanctions.
"Asked for his advice to Western officials, ElBaradei said: 'You need to keep all options on the table.'
"But U.S. Sen. JohnMcCain appeared to rule out negotiations.
"'They're interested inacquiring weapons of mass destruction and dominating the Middle East,' McCain, told a panel. 'I don't know of any carrot that works.'..."
Update: Norway recognizes Hamas as a government.
Update 2, from the January 31, 2006 edition of the Washington Post:
"LONDON, Jan. 30 -- The five permanent members of the U.N. Security Council -- the United States, Britain, France, Russia and China -- along with Germany, agreed Monday night to report Iran to the Security Council over its nuclear program.
"The decision, reached in London through a compromise with Russia and China, was a victory for the United States and its European allies, who had pressed for the matter to be sent to the council. But Russia and China were able to soften the agreement by stipulating that the Security Council not take up the matter until March. That gives Iran more time to comply with U.N. nuclear inspectors and avoid the threat of sanctions....
"The agreement to report, rather than "refer," is less than Washington wanted and gives Iran another chance to negotiate a way out of the crisis. Had the matter been "referred," it would have become the immediate domain of the Security Council.
"Winning the support of Russia and China to report the matter to the Security Council does not guarantee what action the council might take. It also does not guarantee that Russia and China would vote to support sanctions or other action proposed at the council.
"Iran now has six weeks to meet the requirements of the IAEA....
"'We consider any referral or report of Iran to the Security Council as the end of diplomacy,' Iranian state television quoted Ali Larijani, secretary of Iran's Supreme National Security Council and its chief nuclear negotiator, as saying on Tuesday, according to Reuters...."
Update 3 from the January 31, 2006 edition of the Washington Post:
"DAMASCUS, Syria -- A new era in the struggle for Palestinian liberation is upon us. Through historic fair and free elections, the Palestinian people have spoken.
Accordingly, America's long-standing tradition of supporting the oppressed's rights to self-determination should not waver. The United States, the European Union and the rest of the world should welcome the unfolding of the democratic process, and the commitment to aid should not falter. Last week's victory of the Change and Reform Party in the Palestinian legislative elections signals a new hope for an occupied people.....
"Despite the pressures of occupation and corrupt self-rule, Palestinian civil society has demonstrated its resilience in the face of repressive conditions. Social institutions can now be given new life under a reformed government that embraces the empowerment of the people, facilitates freedoms and protects civil rights.
"Our society has always celebrated pluralism in keeping with the unique history and traditions of the Holy Land. In recognizing Judeo-Christian traditions, Muslims nobly vie for and have the greatest incentive and stake in preserving the Holy Land for all three Abrahamic faiths. In addition, fair governance demands that the Palestinian nation be represented in a pluralistic environment. A new breed of Islamic leadership is ready to put into practice faith-based principles in a setting of tolerance and unity....
"The Islamic Resistance Movement was elected to protect the Palestinians from the abuses of occupation, based on its history of sacrifice for the cause of liberty. It would be a mistake to view the collective will of the Palestinian people in electing Hamas in fair and free elections under occupation as a threat. For meaningful dialogue to occur there should be no prejudgments or preconditions. And we do desire dialogue. The terms of the dialogue should be premised on justice, mutual respect and integrity of the parties.
"As the Israelis value their own security, Palestinians are entitled to their fundamental rights to live in dignity and security. We ask them to reflect on the peace that our peoples once enjoyed and the protection that Muslims gave the Jewish community worldwide. We will exert good-faith efforts to remove the bitterness that Israel's occupation has succeeded in creating, alienating a generation of Palestinians. We call on them not to condemn posterity to endless bloodshed and a conflict in which dominance is illusory. There must come a day when we will live together, side by side once again.
"The failed policies of the U.S. administration are the result of the inherent contradiction in its position as Israel's strongest ally and an "honest broker" in the conflict. World nations have condemned the brutal Israeli occupation. For the sake of peace, the United States must abandon its position of isolation and join the rest of the world in calling for an end to the occupation, assuring the Palestinians their right to self-determination.
"We appeal to the American people's sense of fairness to judge this conflict in light of the great thoughts, principles and ideals you hold dear in the Declaration of Independence, the Constitution and the democracy you have built. It is not unreasonable to expect America to practice abroad what it preaches at home. We can but sincerely hope that you use your honest judgment and the blessings of ascendancy God has given you to demand an end to the occupation. Meaningful democracy cannot flourish as long as an external force maintains the balance of power. It is the right of all people to pursue their own destiny.
"The writer is deputy political bureau chief of the Islamic Resistance Movement (Hamas). He has a U.S. doctorate in engineering and was indicted in the United States in 2004 as a co-conspirator on racketeering and money-laundering charges in connection with activities on behalf of Hamas dating to the early 1990s, before the organization was placed on the list of terrorist groups. He was deported to Jordan in 1997. "
posted by Always On Watch @ 1/29/2006 08:05:00 PM
32 comments
32 Comments:
I’ve written the President and my representatives to tell them not a cent in aid should go to Palestinians now that it is clear that the majority support terror. And we should not ask them to renounce anything--what would be achieved by asking them to lie?
Before the election, people could be fooled that only a minority support terrorism. But that has been blown out of the water. I think we can pressure our politicians by letting them know that continued aid goes against every principle they’ve stated for the past 5 years. We just have to refuse to accept lies and rationalizations.
This is the place to draw the line. The Taliban is now in Gaza … do we feed the beast? A popular grass-roots uproar could show that the public is sick of appeasement and weak-kneed rationalizations.
Jason,
I’ve written the President and my representatives to tell them not a cent in aid should go to Palestinians now that it is clear that the majority support terror....A popular grass-roots uproar could show that the public is sick of appeasement and weak-kneed rationalizations.
Guess that I'll crank out my letters tomorrow. I have to admit that I don't have much faith in our politicians, though.
As you know, I've been feeling pretty disheartened lately. And so has my husband--and he very rarely gets down about the world situation.
If a stand is not taken on the two issues about which I blogged in this article, I can't see a lot of hope for the future. Yes, a stand will be costly economically, but the alternative is even worse.
I am sure Oz will drop now all support to Palestinians.
Hamas is on our official terrorist list.
The Palestinians have chosen their fate. Let them now suffer the consequences of their choice. Once they are weaned from the Israeli/U.N. teat, they will shrivel up and begin to whither. For let's face it, they are a "dependent" population whose "new" leaders will undoubtedly soon prove to be as corrupt as their former ones.
Their Arab mothers will soon offer them another breast to suckle from. That is the breast of radical extremism from Saudia Arabia, Iran, and Egypt. And this will force the IDF ultimately to crush them. And THAT will finally be the end of the "Palestinian" problem.
Hesiod, "Works and Days"...
And now I will tell a fable for princes who themselves understand. Thus said the hawk to the nightingale with speckled neck, while he carried her high up among the clouds, gripped fast in his talons, and she, pierced by his crooked talons, cried pitifully. To her he spoke disdainfully: “Miserable thing, why do you cry out? One far stronger than you now holds you fast, and you must go wherever I take you, songstress as you are. And if I please, I will make my meal of you, or let you go. He is a fool who tries to withstand the stronger, for he does not get the mastery and suffers pain besides his shame.” So said the swiftly flying hawk, the long-winged bird. But you, Perses, listen to right and do not foster violence; for violence is bad for a poor man. Even the prosperous cannot easily bear its burden, but is weighed down under it when he has fallen into delusion. The better path is to go by on the other side towards Justice; for Justice beats Outrage when she comes at length to the end of the race. But only when he has suffered does the fool learn this. For Oath keeps pace with wrong judgements. There is a noise when Justice is being dragged in the way where those who devour bribes and give sentence with crooked judgements, take her. And she, wrapped in mist, follows to the city and haunts of the people, weeping, and bringing mischief to men, even to such as have driven her forth in that they did not deal straightly with her. But they who give straight judgements to strangers and to the men of the land, and go not aside from what is just, their city flourishes, and the people prosper in it: Peace, the nurse of children, is abroad in their land, and all-seeing Zeus never decrees cruel war against them. Neither famine nor disaster ever haunt men who do true justice; but light-heartedly they tend the fields which are all their care. The earth bears them victual in plenty, and on the mountains the oak bears acorns upon the top and bees in the midst. Their woolly sheep are laden with fleeces; their women bear children like their parents. They flourish continually with good things, and do not travel on ships, for the grain-giving earth bears them fruit. But for those who practice violence and cruel deeds far-seeing Zeus, the son of Cronos, ordains a punishment. Often even a whole city suffers for a bad man who sins and devises presumptuous deeds, and the son of Cronos lays great trouble upon the people, famine and plague together, so that the men perish away, and their women do not bear children, and their houses become few, through the contriving of Olympian Zeus. And again, at another time, the son of Cronos either destroys their wide army, or their walls, or else makes an end of their ships on the sea. You princes, mark well this punishment, you also, for the deathless gods are near among men; and mark all those who oppress their fellows with crooked judgements; and heed not the anger of the gods. For upon the bounteous earth Zeus has thrice ten thousand spirits, watchers of mortal men, and these keep watch on judgements and deeds of wrong as they roam, clothed in mist, all over the earth. And there is virgin Justice, the daughter of Zeus, who is honored and reverenced among the gods who dwell on Olympus, and whenever anyone hurts her with lying slander, she sits beside her father, Zeus the son of Cronos, and tells him of men's wicked heart, until the people pay for the mad folly of their princes who, evilly minded, pervert judgement and give sentence crookedly. Keep watch against this, you princes, and make straight your judgements, you who devour bribes; put crooked judgements altogether from your thoughts. He does mischief to himself who does mischief to another, and evil planned harms the plotter most.
-FJ
The Palestinians have chosen their fate. Let them now suffer the consequences of their choice. Once they are weaned from the Israeli/U.N. teat, they will shrivel up and begin to whither. For let's face it, they are a "dependent" population whose "new" leaders will undoubtedly soon prove to be as corrupt as their former ones.
Their Arab mothers will soon offer them another breast to suckle from. That is the breast of radical extremism from Saudia Arabia, Iran, and Egypt. And this will force the IDF ultimately to crush them. And THAT will finally be the end of the "Palestinian" problem.
Hesiod, "Works and Days"...
And now I will tell a fable for princes who themselves understand. Thus said the hawk to the nightingale with speckled neck, while he carried her high up among the clouds, gripped fast in his talons, and she, pierced by his crooked talons, cried pitifully. To her he spoke disdainfully: “Miserable thing, why do you cry out? One far stronger than you now holds you fast, and you must go wherever I take you, songstress as you are. And if I please, I will make my meal of you, or let you go. He is a fool who tries to withstand the stronger, for he does not get the mastery and suffers pain besides his shame.” So said the swiftly flying hawk, the long-winged bird. But you, Perses, listen to right and do not foster violence; for violence is bad for a poor man. Even the prosperous cannot easily bear its burden, but is weighed down under it when he has fallen into delusion. The better path is to go by on the other side towards Justice; for Justice beats Outrage when she comes at length to the end of the race. But only when he has suffered does the fool learn this. For Oath keeps pace with wrong judgements. There is a noise when Justice is being dragged in the way where those who devour bribes and give sentence with crooked judgements, take her. And she, wrapped in mist, follows to the city and haunts of the people, weeping, and bringing mischief to men, even to such as have driven her forth in that they did not deal straightly with her. But they who give straight judgements to strangers and to the men of the land, and go not aside from what is just, their city flourishes, and the people prosper in it: Peace, the nurse of children, is abroad in their land, and all-seeing Zeus never decrees cruel war against them. Neither famine nor disaster ever haunt men who do true justice; but light-heartedly they tend the fields which are all their care. The earth bears them victual in plenty, and on the mountains the oak bears acorns upon the top and bees in the midst. Their woolly sheep are laden with fleeces; their women bear children like their parents. They flourish continually with good things, and do not travel on ships, for the grain-giving earth bears them fruit. But for those who practice violence and cruel deeds far-seeing Zeus, the son of Cronos, ordains a punishment. Often even a whole city suffers for a bad man who sins and devises presumptuous deeds, and the son of Cronos lays great trouble upon the people, famine and plague together, so that the men perish away, and their women do not bear children, and their houses become few, through the contriving of Olympian Zeus. And again, at another time, the son of Cronos either destroys their wide army, or their walls, or else makes an end of their ships on the sea. You princes, mark well this punishment, you also, for the deathless gods are near among men; and mark all those who oppress their fellows with crooked judgements; and heed not the anger of the gods. For upon the bounteous earth Zeus has thrice ten thousand spirits, watchers of mortal men, and these keep watch on judgements and deeds of wrong as they roam, clothed in mist, all over the earth. And there is virgin Justice, the daughter of Zeus, who is honored and reverenced among the gods who dwell on Olympus, and whenever anyone hurts her with lying slander, she sits beside her father, Zeus the son of Cronos, and tells him of men's wicked heart, until the people pay for the mad folly of their princes who, evilly minded, pervert judgement and give sentence crookedly. Keep watch against this, you princes, and make straight your judgements, you who devour bribes; put crooked judgements altogether from your thoughts. He does mischief to himself who does mischief to another, and evil planned harms the plotter most.
-FJ
Ooops... slow computer response...sorry for the double post.
-FJ
I saw that Norway has recognized Hamas. Norway has also apologized for publishing cartoon depictions of Mohammed. Norway must think that Muslims can't take the cold.
AOW..isn't Hamas on the United States list as an illegal organization for US charitable contributions?
Bush is certainly in a dilemma. By making democracy the cornerstone of his foreign policy, he has himself backed into a corner. Not one of his smarter statements was "democratically elected governments don't wage war on each other".
Wasn't Hitler democratically elected at one point?
It was Denmark that published cartoons of Muhammad, and they have not apologized, even after having their diplomats expelled from a few Arab countries. They're giving them Islamalamadingdongs a sturdy Viking middle finger. Hail the Danes.
Despite President Bush's stomach-turning adherence to pacifism in the war on terrorism, I won't begrudge him for Hamas winning a "democratic" election.
If we had troops in the West Bank and Gaza searching for the 2 or 3 people there that don't deserve to be napalmed off the face of the Earth, I'd give Bush's foreign policy some lumps for the election outcome.
This lies solely at the feet of the idiot Ariel Sharon, for giving Hamas the Gaza Strip in reward for all their sucide bombings.
I agree that the alternatives aren’t many in the case of Iran. Newt has been pounding the drum. He’s rested and ready to take on another fight. I think some Democrats will join. But I think the President will wait for popular demand – other politicians and polls.
But I think we can demand that our gov’t take a tougher stance towards the Hamastan, as Bibi calls it, in the West Bank. We have to try. Popular opinion will be tough if he waivers and falters. I can’t stop writing about the need to be firm and then some.
Those that think democracies don't ever go to war with each other have never read Machiavelli's "Florentine Histories" OR Thucydides "History of the Peloponnesian War". Democracies are much more likely to go stupidly marching off to war than ANY other form of government. And in a nascent democracies, the people [rulers] have yet to learn the lessons of rule relevant to war and peace. They are but young and inexperienced "princes", bereft of knowledge.
Fortunately, America is not yet (and hopefully never will be) a democracy. It's a republic. There's a big difference. A republic isn't as "immediately" responsive to the people's complaints. And so there remains a "balance of powers". Senate vs House. One that allows those that "have" to retain what they've got, and not throw it all away at every opportunity on the off-chance of stealing someone else's goods (declaring a war).
And Hitler lost the election, but got appointed Chancellor by Hindenberg... one of the drawbacks of "coalition" governments. Then Hindenberg died... and Hitler abolished the position of "president".
-FJ
"Fortunately, America is not yet (and hopefully never will be) a democracy. It's a republic."
Were also a representative democracy and we are also a constitutional democracy.
I think all three terms pretty much mean the same. We also have an educated electorate, something that Palestine doesn't have.
Hamas has only 1 purpose..destroy Israel. When it comes to governing their people, Hamas is clueless.
Yes, republic, constitutional, and representative are all words used to LIMIT democracy... the free and unfettered will of the people. Similar to the way "liberty" is unfettered "freedom" LIMITED by laws.
And neither Hamas NOR the Palestinian people have been educated in the "limits" of democracy yet. They are about to receive their first lesson in the school of hard knocks. Let's hope they are "fast learners"... and aren't completely destroyed by their own stated ambitions to destroy others.
-FJ
FJ makes some good points on unqualified democracy that can be driven by demagogues and degenerate into mobocracy. Aristotle worries about good and bad democracy. Appealing to the mob was not unusual in Rome. But our founding fathers fully understood that a democracy limited by a sound constitution, i.e. a republic, was a far cry from mob-rule. Checks and balances, Bill of Rights, etc. are vital. But most important is the tradition of respect for the individual rights of one’s fellow citizen. As the younger generation no longer understands that tradition, we are costing on borrowed time … unless we turn that around.
Limited democracy (representative democracy, republic, constitutional democracy, constitutional republic, etc.)--safeguard against mobocracy.
The Founders clearly understood the dangers of "mob rule." The French Revolution clearly illustrated what can happen when democracy goes awry; other examples also abound. Will something similar happen in Gaza and West Bank? Sure, there will be lots of infighting, and we've already seen a bit of that on the news. But the matter of an educated electorate will not be resolved quickly.
Democracy, that great Western ideal, is not a panacea for all ills. With such a form of government comes responsibility, on the part of both the government and the citizenry. As Jason said, most important is the tradition of respect for the individual rights of one’s fellow citizen. Hamas doesn't show any respect whatsoever for Israeli lives--indeed, not for their very own or for those of their children, occasionally used as suicide bombers. Have we forgotten that terrorists use retarded children as bomb carriers?
Didn't the voters in Gaza and West Bank understand what Hamas stands for? Condi Rice says not. From today's WaPo: "Perhaps Palestinian people want their children to be suicide bombers, and that's the great desire of large numbers of the Palestinian population. I don't believe it."
But I have my doubts about her confidence in the goodness of all people. Sometimes ideologies override what we Westerners consider universal values.
Hoping that Hamas will renounce violence and recognize Israel's right to exist is a futile dream. Hamas's charter makes their goals and methods clear. Yet I'm hearing on the news, over and over again, the word "if," as in "If Hamas does this or that."
"Read the charter, you idiots!" is what I feel like screaming.
Look on the bright side here:
At least it's all out in the open. The true character of the Palestinian people.
Generations raised on hate and death, voting for hate and death.
No shock there.
Mark Steyn had a great column on this subject Sunday. I excerpted it at Mike's America.
But with the recent change in government in Germany and now Canada, the West may be ready to present a more unified front in the face of this newly honest view of the poor Palestinians.
There is more stuff on blog http://weekbyweek7.blogspot.com/
Anonymous,
Thanks for stopping by.
At the link you provided, I see these portions excerpted, among others:
Article Eight: The Slogan of the HamasAllah is its goal, the Prophet its model, the Qur’an its Constitution, Jihad its path and death for the case of Allah its most sublime belief.
- The Islamic Resistance Movement believes that the land of Palestine has been an Islamic Waqf throughout the generations and until the Day of Resurrection, no one can renounce it or part of it, or abandon it or part of it. No Arab country nor the aggregate of all Arab countries, and no Arab King or President nor all of them in the aggregate, have that right, nor has that right any organization or the aggregate of all organizations, be they Palestinian or Arab, because Palestine is an Islamic Waqf throughout all generations and to the Day of Resurrection.
Article Thirteen: Peaceful Solutions, [Peace] Initiatives and International Conferences[Peace] initiatives, the so-called peaceful solutions, and the international conferences to resolve the Palestinian problem, are all contrary to the beliefs of the Islamic Resistance Movement. For renouncing any part of Palestine means renouncing part of the religion; the nationalism of the Islamic Resistance Movement is part of its faith, the movement educates its members to adhere to its principles and to raise the banner of Allah over their homeland as they fight their Jihad
I'd say that what I've bolded is pretty plain. And Hamas shows zero sign of abrogating any portion of the charter. Furthermore, Hamas plainly states their view that the conflict is an Islamic holy war.
Any abrogation on the part of Hamas would be taqiyya, IMO.
Mike,
Yes, At least it's all out in the open. The true character of the Palestinian people.
In that regard, the election results are a positive development. I do, however, resent all my tax dollars having poured into the region, in the futile hope that our magnanimity would have much impact.
BTW, I tried to post a ocmment last night at your site, but I got the "banned by webmaster" message. Really?
FJ,
Good to see you here!
Once they are weaned from the Israeli/U.N. teat, they will shrivel up and begin to whither. For let's face it, they are a "dependent" population whose "new" leaders will undoubtedly soon prove to be as corrupt as their former ones.
How much time would such a fall take? Does Israel have time to wait?
The fable you posted supports the idea of righteous justice, too.
BTW, I am particularly fond of fables--and not just Aesop's, though his are known to almost all. Fables are particularly good at presenting a moral (universal values or what shoud be universal values) in an entertaining way. One of my favorite creative-writing assignments for my students is for them to write a fable. In fact, I've never seen a students write a poor one!
BTW, next year my literature class will be studying The Merchant of Venice. Oh how I wish that you could come as a guest lecturer! Do you happen to recall at which thread we discussed that particular work? I'd use some of your information if I knew where to look.
PS: Have you ever read any of the Arab fables or, more properly, folk tales? Some clearly espouse a very different values system?
Mike,
I was able to post a comment this morning.
From the January 31, 2006 edition of the Washington Post:
LONDON, Jan. 30 -- The five permanent members of the U.N. Security Council -- the United States, Britain, France, Russia and China -- along with Germany, agreed Monday night to report Iran to the Security Council over its nuclear program.
The decision, reached in London through a compromise with Russia and China, was a victory for the United States and its European allies, who had pressed for the matter to be sent to the council. But Russia and China were able to soften the agreement by stipulating that the Security Council not take up the matter until March. That gives Iran more time to comply with U.N. nuclear inspectors and avoid the threat of sanctions....
The agreement to report, rather than "refer," is less than Washington wanted and gives Iran another chance to negotiate a way out of the crisis. Had the matter been "referred," it would have become the immediate domain of the Security Council.
Winning the support of Russia and China to report the matter to the Security Council does not guarantee what action the council might take. It also does not guarantee that Russia and China would vote to support sanctions or other action proposed at the council.
Iran now has six weeks to meet the requirements of the IAEA....
"We consider any referral or report of Iran to the Security Council as the end of diplomacy," Iranian state television quoted Ali Larijani, secretary of Iran's Supreme National Security Council and its chief nuclear negotiator, as saying on Tuesday, according to Reuters....
AOW: Not sure what the problem was with your earlier comment. You might have been coming in on an IP that one of the moonbats uses.
Glad to see you got through this morning.
I agree there has been a huge wasted effort in much of our previous dealings with the Palestinians. But that wouldn't upset me as much as if we simply continue to through money in that rat hole.
Hopefully we and our allies will wise up.
Let Iran toss their money down the hole for a while. Like the Arabs, most of these Middle East governments talk about the Palestinian plight, but pass the plate to pay for it to the West.
Somehow, I doubt the Palestinins relish the idea of a bunch of Persians showing up telling them what to do either.
I wonder if President Bush will mention the issue in tonight's speech.
From the January 31, 2006 edition of the Washington Post:
DAMASCUS, Syria -- A new era in the struggle for Palestinian liberation is upon us. Through historic fair and free elections, the Palestinian people have spoken.
Accordingly, America's long-standing tradition of supporting the oppressed's rights to self-determination should not waver. The United States, the European Union and the rest of the world should welcome the unfolding of the democratic process, and the commitment to aid should not falter. Last week's victory of the Change and Reform Party in the Palestinian legislative elections signals a new hope for an occupied people.....
Despite the pressures of occupation and corrupt self-rule, Palestinian civil society has demonstrated its resilience in the face of repressive conditions. Social institutions can now be given new life under a reformed government that embraces the empowerment of the people, facilitates freedoms and protects civil rights.
Our society has always celebrated pluralism in keeping with the unique history and traditions of the Holy Land. In recognizing Judeo-Christian traditions, Muslims nobly vie for and have the greatest incentive and stake in preserving the Holy Land for all three Abrahamic faiths. In addition, fair governance demands that the Palestinian nation be represented in a pluralistic environment. A new breed of Islamic leadership is ready to put into practice faith-based principles in a setting of tolerance and unity....
The Islamic Resistance Movement was elected to protect the Palestinians from the abuses of occupation, based on its history of sacrifice for the cause of liberty. It would be a mistake to view the collective will of the Palestinian people in electing Hamas in fair and free elections under occupation as a threat. For meaningful dialogue to occur there should be no prejudgments or preconditions. And we do desire dialogue. The terms of the dialogue should be premised on justice, mutual respect and integrity of the parties.
As the Israelis value their own security, Palestinians are entitled to their fundamental rights to live in dignity and security. We ask them to reflect on the peace that our peoples once enjoyed and the protection that Muslims gave the Jewish community worldwide. We will exert good-faith efforts to remove the bitterness that Israel's occupation has succeeded in creating, alienating a generation of Palestinians. We call on them not to condemn posterity to endless bloodshed and a conflict in which dominance is illusory. There must come a day when we will live together, side by side once again.
The failed policies of the U.S. administration are the result of the inherent contradiction in its position as Israel's strongest ally and an "honest broker" in the conflict. World nations have condemned the brutal Israeli occupation. For the sake of peace, the United States must abandon its position of isolation and join the rest of the world in calling for an end to the occupation, assuring the Palestinians their right to self-determination.
We appeal to the American people's sense of fairness to judge this conflict in light of the great thoughts, principles and ideals you hold dear in the Declaration of Independence, the Constitution and the democracy you have built. It is not unreasonable to expect America to practice abroad what it preaches at home. We can but sincerely hope that you use your honest judgment and the blessings of ascendancy God has given you to demand an end to the occupation. Meaningful democracy cannot flourish as long as an external force maintains the balance of power. It is the right of all people to pursue their own destiny.
The writer is deputy political bureau chief of the Islamic Resistance Movement (Hamas). He has a U.S. doctorate in engineering and was indicted in the United States in 2004 as a co-conspirator on racketeering and money-laundering charges in connection with activities on behalf of Hamas dating to the early 1990s, before the organization was placed on the list of terrorist groups. He was deported to Jordan in 1997.
Notice:
My above two comments were also posted to the blog article itself.
Once foreign aid to "Palestine" is cut off, the Palestinian economy will be in the dumpster. (At least 1/3 of their $3B economy consists of foriegn aid from America, Europe, & Japan) It won't take long for "dissatisfaction" with Hamas to begin being felt, as social services will prompltly fall off to near zero. When that point is reached, the Arab "resistance" money will begin to surplant the "world's" money, and this will further radicalize the PA against Israel, and embolden them to "attack" w/ a renewed terror campaign. At some point, that will force Israel to invade Palestinian territories and level the place (only they'll be alot less careful about it then they were in Southern Lebanon). It may take "several" Israeli retaliatory strikes before the Palestinians begin to comprehend the futility of their enterprise and have these lessons engrained firmly into their consciousness. But as long as the "resistance" money flows, the Palestinians will continue to be a problem. And even that money will dry up to near "nothing" if/when America takes out "Iran".
Have you ever read "The Seven Pillars of Wisdom" (aka - Lawrence of Arabia)? That's my reference point for understnding the region. The decline of the Ottoman and British, and now Russian and American empires. Power abhorrs a vacuum, and MUST be filled. And if America does not fill it, someone else will. And right now, Iran, Chechnya, and Saudi Arabia appear to be the prime contenders for filling that vacuum.
And I still enjoy fables and parables too. Plutarch's "Lives". Plato's dialogues. Nietzsche's "Zarathustra". Swift's "Gulliver". Orwell's "Animal Farm". Huxley's "Brave New World". Aeschylus, Sophocles, Euripides, and Shakespeare's "Tragedies" and "Histories". Homer's "Iliad". The old "Western Canon" (pre-1920).
I must admit, I haven't read many Islamic or "eastern" folk tales. And I don't recall specifically which threads we talked about Merchant of Venice in. Here' one ??? but I'm sure there were others. There's a rather interesting essay by Allan Bloom on Merchant in his collection "Giants and Dwarfs". I admit he is the source of many of my thoughts on the subject (NOT Harold Bloom).
ps - I watched the Anthony Hopkins version of Titus last night. Pretty faithful to the play and dialogue... but many of the modern "symbolic" elements added by the director detract from the message. He even cuts a few key pieces of dialogue to explain how the queen escapes the peril of bearing the Moor's child... and of course, Lucius' ending monologue that explain's the play's purpose. "See Justice done on Aaron that damn'd Moore, From whom, our heavy happes had their beginning: Then afterwards, to Order well the State, That like Events, may ne're it Ruinate."
I wonder how much the subject of the play was influenced by the contension for the English throne in the wake of Henry VIII by Mary and Elizabeth. Will seems to think the concept of "merit" needs to be given more consideration than mere "tradition" or "legislation". Especially since Henry was allowed to "redefine marriage", leading to both Mary and Elizabeth being declared "illegitimate". And of course, Catherine of Aragon was as like to an Englishman as the queen of the Goths, Tamora, was to a Roman.
-FJ
pps - The writer of the Post article would have us act without respect to the "merit" of the argument and case. Like Titus Andronicus, he would have us choose sides on the basis of "tradition" and/or "cultural/moral relativism". To root for the "underdog". And so, perhaps, experience the "tragedy" of Titus.
"Accordingly, America's long-standing tradition of supporting the oppressed's rights to self-determination should not waver"
...as if the "oppression" of the Palestinian's was not "just". There is a very thin line between "justice" and "revenge". we ought not lose sight of it. It is not an injustice to oppress someone who is bent on your violent destruction.
Titus pleaded to the gods for justice. And when the Empress showed up as "Revenge" with her sons "Murther" and "Rapine", Titus was able to easily spot her "deception". Let us not be so easily fooled.
-FJ
...if the Palestinians want to pursue their own destiny, they can emmigrate. They have as much "right" to violently oppose the government of Israel as I have to violently oppose, with guns and bombs, the policies of the American government. For let's face it, G-d given inalienable rights are always subject to attempted alienation by men and force. Just look at all the "phony rights", the Left has "derived" from our own Constitution and Government.(ie -Roe)
-FJ
Iran Watch,
Clausewitz said "Warfare is diplomacy by other means."
Iran can't end our diplomatic options. ;-)
On Iranian "rights"...
"Nuclear energy is our right, and we will resist until this right is fully realized," Ahmadinejad told the crowd in the southern Iran city of Bushehr, the site of Iran's only nuclear power plant.
-FJ
Ouzian,
Yes, he is dying to show off. His picture made me think of a madman's.
The PA's budget crisis thus begins... Saudi's begin to Stand in the Gap
-FJ
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