Sunday, March 19, 2006

Shari'ah Law As Civil Law

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(All emphases by Always On Watch)

At various web sites, I have been reading about Abdul Rahman's plight.

The followng article is reproduced in its entirety:

'An Attack On Islam'
Updated: 15:18, Sunday March 19, 2006

"An Afghan man is facing the death penalty for becoming a Christian.

"Abdul Rahman was arrested last month after his family went to the police and accused him of converting from Islam.

"He has gone on trial for rejecting Islam - an offence punishable by death under Shariah law.

"During the hearing, the defendant allegedly confessed that he converted from Islam to Christianity 16-years-ago.

"He had been working as a medical aid worker for Afghan refugees in neighbouring Pakistan.

"The judge said: 'We are not against any particular religion in the world.

"'But in Afghanistan, this sort of thing is against the law.

"'It is an attack on Islam. The prosecutor is asking for the death penalty.'"
Another news source provides this information:
"Afghanistan's constitution is based on Shariah law, which states that any Muslim who rejects their religion should be sentenced to death ....

"The prosecutor, Abdul Wasi, said the case was the first of its kind in Afghanistan.

"He said that he had offered to drop the charges if Rahman changed his religion back to Islam, but the defendant refused...."
In two months, the court in Kabul is scheduled to rule on the above matter. Abdul Rahman is believed to be forty-one years old.

So there it is: being a Christian is an attack on Islam.

Update from the Washington Post:
"...After being an aid worker for four years in Pakistan, Rahman moved to Germany for nine years, his father, Abdul Manan, said outside his Kabul home.

"Rahman returned to Afghanistan in 2002 and tried to gain custody of his two daughters, now aged 13 and 14, who had been living with their grandparents their whole lives, the father said. A custody battle ensued and the matter was taken to the police.

"During questioning, it emerged that Rahman was a Christian and was carrying a Bible. He was immediately arrested and charged, the father said.

"Afghanistan is a conservative Islamic country. Some 99 percent of its 28 million people are Muslim, and the remainder are mainly Hindu.

"A Christian aid worker in Kabul, who spoke on condition of anonymity because of the sensitivity of the matter, said there was no reliable figure for the number of Christians, though it was believed to be only in the dozens or low hundreds. He said few admit their faith because of fear of retribution and there are no known Afghan churches.

"An old house in a war-wrecked suburb of Kabul serves as a Christian place of worship for expatriates. From the muddy street, the building looks like any other. Its guard, Abdul Wahid, said no Afghans go there.

"The only other churches are believed to be inside foreign embassies or on bases belonging to the U.S.-led coalition or a NATO peacekeeping force.

"Hakim, the human rights advocate, said the case would attract widespread attention in Afghanistan and could be exploited by Muslim conservatives to rally opposition to reformists who are trying to moderate how the religion is practiced here.

"'The reformists are trying to bring about positive changes,' he said. 'This case could be fertile ground for extremists to manipulate things.'

"Muslim clerics still hold considerable power in Afghanistan, especially in rural areas where most women wear all-encompassing burqas and are dominated by men.

"Hakim said that if Rahman was acquitted, it would be a propaganda win for the Taliban rebels, who have stepped up their insurgency in the past year.

"In the months before U.S.-led troops ousted the Taliban in 2001, it claimed Western aid groups were trying to convert Afghan Muslims. They arrested eight foreign aid workers for allegedly preaching Christianity, but later released them unharmed."
Another update, March 21: American Family Association petition to sign here.

70 Comments:

At 3/19/2006 8:09 PM, Blogger MissingLink said...

AOW,
IN my opinion it's just a matter of time before Afghanistan will become yet another theocracy or another form of Muslim oligarchy.
It may or may be not remain on semi-friendly terms with the US.
Unfortunately organizing voting system doesn't change a country into democracy.
There is no economic environment for the people to take advantage of whatever resources they may have an access to.
There are no economic rights/laws and the only reliable source of income for most of the Afghans would be the government job or illegal activities.

Without even moderate economic independence of the individuals there is no way that things will get any better.

 
At 3/19/2006 8:22 PM, Blogger beakerkin said...

We have troops in place this man can be removed to the USA.The whole key is stealth.

 
At 3/19/2006 8:25 PM, Blogger Esther said...

It's a shame this is what has become of Afghanistan. I know most of us were hoping for much better.

 
At 3/19/2006 9:12 PM, Blogger Cubed © said...

Link,

Yeah, that is very scary. Not only will they take the opportunity to transform Afghanistan back into a theocracy, but in Iraq, which I truly fear will also go down that road, we are training our future enemies to use our methods.

Beak,

I sure hope we DO something for this guy; it's a DAMNED OUTRAGE that this is happening in a country that we defeated in battle and where we have personnel in place who could extract him (it's an outrage that it's happening in the first place!).

When WILL Our Leaders get the picture?

Esther,

For sure, we were hoping for much better. What an exercise in futility THAT has become! Iraq is driving me crazy!

 
At 3/19/2006 9:25 PM, Blogger Pastorius said...

I remember a few months back an editor of an Afghani paper had been arrested for suggesting that women ought to have equal rights. That was bad, but I thought maybe it was a fluke. Eventually, if I recall, the guy was let go.

But, here they are suggesting the death penalty.

This is so horrible, I don't know what to say about, beyond what I already said at CUANAS.

All I can think to say is that if we allow this to happen it shows we don't believe in American principles.

 
At 3/19/2006 11:10 PM, Blogger MissingLink said...

Cubed,
Iraq follows the same path as Afghanistan I am afraid.
There was a chance in the beginning but at this stage ....Sharia rules.

 
At 3/19/2006 11:45 PM, Blogger MonicaR said...

I don't like this one bit.

 
At 3/19/2006 11:47 PM, Blogger Mr. Beamish the Instablepundit said...

Man I wish President Bush wasn't such a fuggin' pacifist.

 
At 3/20/2006 1:53 AM, Blogger kevin said...

It's in the Koran; Apostates are to be killed. A secular Middle East is starting to look like a pipe dream.

 
At 3/20/2006 6:00 AM, Blogger LASunsett said...

The only thing left is to charge the man with breathing muslim air.

 
At 3/20/2006 6:24 AM, Blogger Always On Watch said...

NOTICE TO COMMENTERS

I have posted an update to this blog article. Please see the above text.

 
At 3/20/2006 9:58 AM, Blogger American Crusader said...

If Afghanistan has decided Sharia law is going to be the law of the land than all we have done is replaced an extremely repressive Islamic state with a more moderate Islamic state. Destroying and wiping out the Taliban was 100% necessary after 911, but risking American lives for another Islamic government doesn't make much sense. I thought President Karzi had promised a constitution not solely based on Islamic law.

 
At 3/20/2006 10:29 AM, Blogger Mr. Ducky said...

mustang, Beamish and beak told me that we liberated Afghanistan. What gives?

 
At 3/20/2006 10:55 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

You have to admire the power of faith it takes to become a "real" martyr, and not one of Osama's firecrackers.

-FJ

 
At 3/20/2006 11:24 AM, Blogger beakerkin said...

Since we control Afghanistan lets take a page from the Israeli millitary. Lets find a huge buldozer and rescue this man.

However as corrruption is rampant a series of bribes should do the trick. Lets take this man to safety
in the USA. He can write a book that will be ignored by the Goons of Accademia.

 
At 3/20/2006 12:18 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

beak,

Nobody rushed into the Coliseum and saved the Christians. Their sacrifice, however, "revolutionized" Roman Civilization.

And after his trial and conviction for corrupting the youth of Athens, Socrates didn't run off either. His sacrifice "revolutionized" Greece.

And Jesus' followers didn't raid the prison and free him either. His sacrifice "revolutionized" the world.

Best let publicity and "world opinion" effect their toll on the new Afghan regime. Let the stories of the victims and martyrs eat at their "democratic" consciousness. Think of it as something similar to what the Leftists do on the news every night...with their running "body count".

Let the barbarism of Islamic shari'a jurisprudence speak for itself and become the worm that gnaws from within.

-FJ

 
At 3/20/2006 12:40 PM, Blogger English kaffir. said...

have your say about it on this islamic mb. http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/mbreligion/F2213236?thread=2524202

please help out

 
At 3/20/2006 12:49 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

In a 1951 "Letter to George Kennan," Oxford scholar Isaiah Berlin recalled a scene in Fyodor Dostoevsky's "The Brothers Karamazov". In the scene, Ivan Karamazov says that if he could buy the happiness of all of mankind with the torture and resulting death of one completely innocent child, he could not do so. He would, as Berlin says, "return the ticket." Berlin goes on to say that no promise of eternal harmony in the future... will make us accept the use of human beings as mere means -- the doctoring of them until they are made to do what they do not for the sake of the purposes which are their own, fullfillment of hopes which however foolish or desperate are their own, but for reasons which only we, the manipulators, who freely twist them to our purposes, can understand. Berlin was referring to Nazi Germany (reaction of horror common people had to the deceptions used by the Gestapo to "relocate" and "exterminate" the Jews) and the moral predicament of the apparatchik's in Soviet Russia. I don't think Berlin ever would have dreamed that Marcusian neo-liberalism could gain the foothold it has in America or the West by violating this sacred law of "truely" liberal thought. George Kennan based his forecast of the eventual collapse of the Soviet Union upon this "moral predicament". He was the author of the successful US policy which lead to the collapse of the Soviet Union known as "containment".

The entire text of Berlin's letter to Kennan can be found in a copy of "Four Essay's on Liberty".

-FJ

 
At 3/20/2006 12:53 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Christians used to burn heretics and witches, but eventually "out-grew" those practices. Why?

-FJ

 
At 3/20/2006 12:55 PM, Blogger Cubed © said...

Guys,

This is the problem with a "democracy," which rules by simple majority. In a country that is 99% Muslim, and if a majority wants shariah. . .Well, you catch my drift.

It is proper to have majority rule ONLY within a framework of reason, where the rights of the individual to think, believe, create, etc. are protected. This is the importance of having a written constitution, and it was why some of the Framers insisted on having the first ten amendments, the Bill of Rights, written down and "out there," visible to everyone forever.

That helps us to keep the government from screwing over the individual. In fact, other than explaining how the government should be set up and what its duties are, the purpose of the Constitution was to restrict the power of the government vis a vis the individual citizen. RESTRICT!

If Afghanistan had a secular government - a government not involved with the religious beliefs of the citizens - instead of a religion/government fusion, this poor guy wouldn't be in danger.

 
At 3/20/2006 1:06 PM, Blogger Steve Harkonnen said...

Here's a toast to that "peaceful" and "tolerant" religion called Islam. It's high time people start calling a spade a spade and declare that religion outlawed, period, end of discussion!

 
At 3/20/2006 1:47 PM, Blogger Avenging Apostate said...

It's in the Koran; Apostates are to be killed. said Kevin.

Quite right. All this does not surprise me. I live among them. Some day, my secret will be made known to people (somehow) and then...well you can guess the rest I think.

This does piss me off though, so many lives have been sacrificed for what? Getting a moderate version of Taliban which says a couple of good words about the West and then goes back home and murder another person who chose to think differently.

Americans and the coalition did get rid of Mullah Omar's regime but by handing everything over to the Moslems and letting them have their sick shariah law, they created many more Mullah Omars...and sadly it is those people who are in power there today. Same is true for Iraq.

Moslems just can't be trusted. Period.

So there it is: being a Christian is an attack on Islam.

Not just Christianity, any religion other than Islam. Questioning the Koran, questioning the Hadiths, questioning Mohammed's actions, opposing Jihad, opposing any other practice of Islam...they're all attacks on Islam and the 'criminal' should be put to death.

However as corrruption is rampant a series of bribes should do the trick. Lets take this man to safety in the USA. said Beakerkin

I'd love to see that happen but I don't see it coming. Too many people have suffered at the hands of Islamic barbarism in different corners of the Moslem world, they are in forgotten memories now.

To end my comment I will use Pastorius's comment, he said something we can all ponder over.

All I can think to say is that if we allow this to happen it shows we don't believe in American principles.

 
At 3/20/2006 1:49 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Burn the heretic! Burn the Witch! They rebel against G_d's Divine Order and threaten to corrupt the masses. It's revolution, I say!

Leo X was perfectly correct in issuing his "Exsurge Domine" against Luther. Look at the religious wars that resulted from that little bit of "heresy".

The question is, was Increase Mather correct in issuing his "Cases of Conscience Concerning Evil Spirits", which ended the Salem Witch Trials?

Freedom or Order. Choose.

-FJ

 
At 3/20/2006 3:20 PM, Blogger Brooke said...

All I can say is: I'm glad I'm not a Muslim!

 
At 3/20/2006 5:56 PM, Blogger WomanHonorThyself said...

O yes..apostates are tantamount to traitors...there is no concept of separation of religion and state...the state IS the shariaaaa..like it or risk death.

 
At 3/20/2006 8:33 PM, Blogger F.B. Jones said...

They said they have no problem with other religions. I believe them don't ya'll. You know I am kidding right. They really did say that though.

 
At 3/20/2006 9:48 PM, Blogger beakerkin said...

Always

I did get Ducky to sit for an interview. It was interesting and Jihadi Anum Muhktar is considering asking for an interview.

Ducky came off better then I guessed.

 
At 3/20/2006 11:05 PM, Blogger Always On Watch said...

Apologies...

I've been all consumed with work and computer issues. Tonight was devoted to getting a broadband connection up and running on the laptop computer I'm using at the moment. I finally succumbed and called for techie help. I seem to be up and running now.

It's getting late, and I'm burned out.

Later,
AOW

 
At 3/20/2006 11:45 PM, Blogger Mr. Beamish the Instablepundit said...

Mr. Ducky,

How often does a Muslim's conversion to Christianity make the international news?

 
At 3/21/2006 7:09 AM, Blogger Always On Watch said...

Thanks to all who have commented so far. Usually I respond to each individual, but I'm pushed for time on Tuesdays and Wednesdays, so I'll just add a few words to all here.

For those who may not know, Avenging Apostate is a Christian convert from Islam and lives his faith in secret. He explains why, and the case of Ahmad Rahman is along those same lines.

I urge all here to read very carefully what Avenging Apostate has to say, both here and at this site, where he is a team blogger.

Does the United States have a clue as to the harvest which shari'ah law reaps when it is written into the constitution of any nation?By its very nature, shari'ah nullifies the freedoms which we have written into the U.S. Constitution, particularly with regard to the Bill of Rights.

I have read and heard criticism of the oppressive rule and policies of the Puritans in Massachusetts Bay Colony. Well, compare the Puritans' legalism to shari'ah law, and you'll see that the Puritans were living in a paradise of freedom.

Before the Bush administration attempted nation-building in the Middle East, did GWB and his advisors have a clue as to what they were getting into? Did they understand that some 1400 years of living under Islam may well override the ideal of a free society? Did they understand that Islam, particularly the mullahs, is all about the power? All about totalitarianism? Did they understand that the West is viewed as corrupt and that Western ideas are condemned even before the full extent of them can be understood? Did they understand that for democracy to function at a humane level a people need a history of exploring the ideals which create such a democracy? What we call democracy in the West didn't spring up overnight!

It's one thing for people to rejoice when a dictator is deposed. It's quite another to believe that after that removal from power that nation will go the way of freedom as the West defines the term.

Our President believes--sincerely, I think--two things with which I'm having problems:

1. All people desire freedom.

2. All religions appeal to the best in mankind.

 
At 3/21/2006 7:27 AM, Blogger beakerkin said...

Always

Islam is not a religion in the conventional sense. Most religions have evolved to accept the division of Church and state. Islam
is unique as a colonial hegemonic system. In reality it has more in common with Communism then Christianity.

Point 1 Global Domination
Point 2 Devaluation of human life
Point 3 Desire to build Utopia in this world.

Nor should all religions be viewed in a positive manner. Do we want to praise religions that practiced human sacrafice like the Aztecs.

However as the great Richard Poe once told me " We should admire the greatness of cultures in their context but not forget how we have evolved". Greece and Rome had great cultures but also had Slavery
and zero regard for the disabled.
They had a number of historic feats
that were impressive but should remain viewed in their time period not ours.

Islam's feats have been overstated
and its numerous flaws ignored. The best book on the impact of Islam on a society is still the two of VS Naipul. Islam is alienation from ones history and culture. Irshad Manji calls it foundamentalism. The only thing that is sacred are the whims of a man 1400 years ago and the sands of Arabia.

I want to thank you for being brave enough to sit for an interview.

Perhaps at some point in the future I will do an entire Steinbeck thread. The question seemed to resonate beyond its intended audience.

 
At 3/21/2006 7:46 AM, Blogger Always On Watch said...

Beak,
I want to thank you for being brave enough to sit for an interview.

For any interested, the interview is here.

I loved doing that interview! Thank you for affording me the opportunity. The overachiever in me loves having been first. Hehehe.

I got a bit wound-up on those education questions. I'm a teacher, after all!

I see that we can now ask YOU some questions. I'll have to ponder what I want to ask.

 
At 3/21/2006 7:47 AM, Blogger Always On Watch said...

Beak,
You just made some excellent points about Islam in your above comment.

 
At 3/21/2006 8:41 AM, Blogger Always On Watch said...

American Family Association Petition/Letter to sign here.

 
At 3/21/2006 8:49 AM, Blogger Always On Watch said...

From Michelle Malkin, on March 21:

...Prosecutors say he should die. So do his family, his jailers, even the judge. Rahman has no lawyer. Jail officials refused to let anyone see Rahman on Monday, despite permission granted by the country's justice minister.

"We will cut him into little pieces," said Hosnia Wafayosofi, who works at the jail, as she made a cutting motion with her hands. "There's no need to see him..."

...Prosecutor Abdul Wasi said Rahman had been told repeatedly to repent and come back to Islam, but Rahman refused. Wasi called Rahman a traitor.

"He is known as a microbe in society, and he should be cut off and removed from the rest of Muslim society and should be killed," Wasi told the court....

"If he doesn't regret his conversion, the punishment will be enforced on him," the judge said. "And the punishment is death."

 
At 3/21/2006 11:50 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

The Prophet in his life exemplified the aspects of qualitative change in personality that a Muslim must usher in his everyday life. The Quran says: "Ye have indeed in the Apostle of Allah, a beautiful pattern of conduct…" (xxxiii:21), again, "and thou standest on an exalted standard of Character (LXVIII:4).

He proved the need to attend to the sick by visiting the woman, who would otherwise everyday throw garbage in his way; he invoked the mercifulness of Almighty through Arch Angel Gabriel, when he visited him with the command of Allah, that should the Prophet desire, he will cause the two mountains at opposite ends to collide against each other, so that everybody therein would perish. The prophet who was then bleeding profusely as a result of injuries caused by pelting of stones, prayed against and wished that someday from their progeny there would be Muslims and yet again he is a Prophet who announces general amnesty to all, when he re-enters Mecca, as a conqueror. Through this one act, the prophet set aside the bitter persecution he and his companions, endured at the hands of Meccans. The prophet again demonstrated that it is better to forgive than to retaliate. Here it must be understood that only the powerful can forgive or otherwise; the weak possess no retaliatory option, and hence can only succumb. The lesson therefore, is to show restraint, when in power to do otherwise.


-FJ

 
At 3/21/2006 12:05 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

...and of course, under "reversed" circumstances, a "pious" Muslim would be compelled to "lie" and renounce his faith in order to save his life... Taqiyya

-FJ

Islam is "Will to Power", and nothing else.

 
At 3/21/2006 12:23 PM, Blogger American Crusader said...

AOW...have you received my reply via e-mail?

 
At 3/21/2006 1:57 PM, Blogger Iran Watch said...

So we send American troops to take out the Taliban, after 911 this was without doubt necessary, but now in place of the Taliban there is another Islamic government that imposes Sharia law. There aren't any easy answers. To have American Christians fighting to save the lives of Muslims who are killing Christians seems crazy. I had hoped president Karzi would have adopted a government that allowed religious freedoms. Maybe this is an impossible prospect in this part of the world.

 
At 3/21/2006 7:16 PM, Blogger Always On Watch said...

FJ,
Through this one act, the prophet set aside the bitter persecution he and his companions, endured at the hands of Meccans.

Is this from the Meccan or Medinan verses? MTP's material became much more belligerent after his rejection at Mecca.

 
At 3/21/2006 7:17 PM, Blogger Always On Watch said...

Crusader,
Yes, and I have responded to your email. Thanks!

 
At 3/21/2006 7:33 PM, Blogger Always On Watch said...

FJ,
I sat for an interview over at Beak's. He'd like to interview you as well.

 
At 3/21/2006 7:34 PM, Blogger Always On Watch said...

Iran Watch,
I've been out of touch today. Any response from Karzai?

 
At 3/21/2006 8:54 PM, Blogger WomanHonorThyself said...

AOW...I linked to this post..excellent work!

 
At 3/21/2006 11:58 PM, Blogger MonicaR said...

Doesn't the constitution in Afghanistan have something about respecting human rights and differences in religion?

 
At 3/22/2006 3:45 AM, Blogger David Schantz said...

I will remember Rahman a true Christian/Believer in my prayers.

God Bless America, God Save The Republic

 
At 3/22/2006 5:59 AM, Blogger Always On Watch said...

MonicaR,
Doesn't the constitution in Afghanistan have something about respecting human rights and differences in religion?

But shari'ah law is also written into the constitution. And the term "rights" can easily be interpreted in accordance with Islamic law. After all, look at the definitions for "innocence" and "peace." See Differing Definitions.

 
At 3/22/2006 6:29 AM, Blogger Always On Watch said...

Rahman's family says that he has a mental disorder.

 
At 3/22/2006 7:59 AM, Blogger Always On Watch said...

According the the Afghan constitution, Islamic law supersedes constitutional law.

I also heard the the prosecution is now contending the Rahman is mentally ill.

 
At 3/22/2006 10:31 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

In the quotes above...

Sura XXXIII (The Clans) is Medinian
Sura LXVIII (The Pen) is Meccan

both refer only to the fact that MTP is the "model" of conduct to be emulated... the rest of the text, including what I "bolded", consists of commentary "notes" made about passages collected from throughout the Koran, of both Meccan and Medinian origin which describe some of the actions of MTP. And so in answer to your question I guess I should say... "neither". The quote you selected is based upon "commentary".

-FJ

 
At 3/22/2006 3:21 PM, Blogger American Crusader said...

This story has been bothering me since I first heard of it. I did a similar post today from an article by Michelle Malkin.

Is this what Pat Tillman died for?
We had no choice but to remove the Taliban, but if all we are doing is installing another hard-line Islamic country then let's get the hell out of there. We can always go back and remove what other government they put in place every five years or so. There were less casualties taking out the Taliban then there has been in trying to maintain the new government.

 
At 3/22/2006 4:36 PM, Blogger Always On Watch said...

Andrew Whitehead of Anti-CAIR:

The Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR) Communications Director, Ibrahim Hooper, responded with “We haven’t dealt with that issue” when questioned about Rahman.

CAIR, which never misses an opportunity to demand rights for Muslims, can’t find the words to condemn the absolute barbarity of state-sanctioned murder in the name of God on behalf of a Christian?

Why?

Could it be possible that Christians are, in CAIR’s world view, second-class citizens, undeserving of the full protections of the law?

 
At 3/23/2006 8:01 AM, Blogger Always On Watch said...

Automated response I received from the Embassy of Afghanistan:

The Embassy of Afghanistan greatly appreciates public concern about Mr. Abdul Rahman. We have received a significant number of inquiries about his case, which initially involved a civil lawsuit in child custody filed by his family.

Please note that the Government of Afghanistan is fully aware of and pursuing the best ways to resolve his case judicially. It is too early to draw any conclusion about the punishment, and we appreciate public understanding of the sensitivity of religious issues.

The Afghan judicial system is currently evaluating questions raised about the mental fitness of Mr. Rahman, the results of which may end the proceedings. Hence we kindly request that the judicial process be given time to resolve Mr. Rahman case.

The Constitution of Afghanistan provides protection for freedom of religion. The Government of Afghanistan will ensure that the constitutional rights of its citizens, international principles, and the due judicial process are respected and implemented.

 
At 3/23/2006 8:47 AM, Blogger Mark said...

Always:

CAIR, which never misses an opportunity to demand rights for Muslims, can’t find the words to condemn the absolute barbarity of state-sanctioned murder in the name of God on behalf of a Christian?

Why?

Could it be possible that Christians are, in CAIR’s world view, second-class citizens, undeserving of the full protections of the law?


But of course! You wouldn't expect a Muslim, or a Muslim organization, to fight for the cause of an infidel, would you?

 
At 3/23/2006 8:51 AM, Blogger Mark said...

Iran Watch:

I had hoped president Karzi would have adopted a government that allowed religious freedoms. Maybe this is an impossible prospect in this part of the world.

Yes, it's impossible all right. Rather like asking your pet dog to go fly a kite!

 
At 3/23/2006 8:56 AM, Blogger Mark said...

Missinglink:

IN my opinion it's just a matter of time before Afghanistan will become yet another theocracy or another form of Muslim oligarchy.

It may or may be not remain on semi-friendly terms with the US.

Unfortunately organizing voting system doesn't change a country into democracy.


That's right! The West has been wasting lives, wasting tax dollars, and wasting its time in that part of the world!

These people don't understand democracy, don't want democracy, and certainly do not value the freedom it could bring them. The only freedom they want is the freedom to worship their god, Allah, and love their prophet, the Prophet Muhammad, with all their heart, all their mind, and with all their soul.

Pathetic, isn't it?

 
At 3/23/2006 8:56 AM, Blogger Always On Watch said...

CAIR finally came out with a statement. Pressure, I think. Or maybe fear of investigation? The same thing happened when CAIR responded to the 9/11 attacks. Of course, the problem of taqiyya always exists.

Interesting that CAIR did not release a statement until GWB gave his blurb yesterday.

A lot of people are already suspicious of CAIR, and the case with Anti-CAIR is still pending. I can't help asking myself if there might be a connection there.

Of course, CAIR was pretty forthcoming about trying to "solve" the cartoon fracas.

Note that UAE pulled out of the ports deal when a thorough investigation was proposed. Coincidence? Maybe, maybe not.

 
At 3/23/2006 8:57 AM, Blogger Mark said...

Esther:

Realistically, what other outcome could we have expected?

 
At 3/23/2006 8:59 AM, Blogger Mark said...

Cubed:

Yeah, that is very scary. Not only will they take the opportunity to transform Afghanistan back into a theocracy, but in Iraq, which I truly fear will also go down that road, we are training our future enemies to use our methods.

Yes, that's right. Western leaders should have known that Islam and democracy are totally and utterly immiscible from the start. But they didn't. They have shown the world their ignorance instead!

 
At 3/23/2006 9:01 AM, Blogger Mark said...

Kevin:

It's in the Koran; Apostates are to be killed. A secular Middle East is starting to look like a pipe dream.

What do you mean "starting to look"? It always did look like a pipe dream. A secular Middle East is an oxymoron.

 
At 3/23/2006 9:02 AM, Blogger Mark said...

Always:

By the way, this is a great thread!

 
At 3/23/2006 9:05 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

The Afghan judicial system is currently evaluating questions raised about the mental fitness of Mr. Rahman

Christians are just the CRAZIEST peoples!

-FJ

 
At 3/24/2006 12:20 PM, Blogger Always On Watch said...

March 24 article:

KABUL, Afghanistan -- Senior Muslim clerics demanded yesterday that an Afghan man on trial for converting from Islam to Christianity be executed, warning that if the government caves in to Western pressure and frees him, they will incite people to "pull him into pieces."...

There's some great logic, huh?

 
At 3/24/2006 12:37 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hey, if I were a Muslim, I'd help tear the fool apart.

Would you appreciate the "federal" government stepping in and overturning your "local" court? Who would you rather have as judge at your trial, the local priest? or the local warlord? And who's laws would you rather see enforced, G_d's or the local "poppy buyer's"?

We may not "like" sharia'h law, but I suspect it serves a very useful purpose... keeping the locals free from the "whimsey's" of he warlords and politicians in Kabul.

-FJ

 
At 3/24/2006 6:10 PM, Blogger Always On Watch said...

FJ,
We may not "like" sharia'h law, but I suspect it serves a very useful purpose... keeping the locals free from the "whimsey's" of he warlords and politicians in Kabul.

Yes, a totalitarian ideology can bring order to a society. However, such an approach also stifles thinking for oneself. Also, how many totalitarianisms are willing to stay within their own borders?

IMO, the key to a free society is literacy. And not just literacy as applied to one book.

A shari'ah society is one of the most conservative on this earth. Yet, liberals support are silent about shari'ah law and its oppressiveness. A conundrum.

You and I wouldn't do so well in a shari'ah society. We read too much, I think.

Why did Abdul Rahman go back to Afghanistan? To get custody of his daughters, I believe. I'm sure that he fully understood the risk, yet he traveled back to his homeland.

 
At 3/24/2006 6:11 PM, Blogger Always On Watch said...

FJ,
By read too much is mean that we read secular material.

 
At 3/24/2006 7:26 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

On the other hand, it is the "scholars" who interpret and administer the laws... those that are most "learned" and steeped in "tradition". Yes, it seems oppressively unyielding to an outsider... but at the same time "liberating" from the whims of the local "tyrants" and "dictators". I can see why it is so comforting to its' adherents... it keeps the idiot hotheads like Moqtada Sadr subordinate to the reclusive al-Sistani's... and keep's local clerics from being bullied from the capital.

I'm not saying it's as good as our system, but it has many good points that would help its' people "survive" in a hostile and corrupt environment.

You and I would chafe under it... but I can see how it might prove very satisfying to one "raised" within it's restrictions and more subject to the whims of man and fortune.

-FJ

 
At 3/24/2006 9:39 PM, Blogger Always On Watch said...

FJ,
I'm not saying it's as good as our system...

Yes, I know you weren't. And any such drastic change in such a closed culture as Afghanistan would take time--if ever accomplished. Most Americans are too impatient to realize that fact. The instant-gratification culture pervades modern society.

 
At 3/25/2006 7:44 PM, Blogger American Crusader said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

 
At 3/26/2006 8:37 PM, Blogger Always On Watch said...

Crusader,
Having comment notification, I read this comment, which you deleted. I also know where you obtained it and have posted my nasty reply there.

 

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