Saturday, December 17, 2005

Civil Liberties, National Security, And Presidential Powers

All emphases in this blog article are those of Always On Watch.

As the headlines "Renewal of Patriot Act Is Blocked in Senate" and "On Hill, Anger and Calls for Hearings Greet News of Stateside Surveillance" appear in the December 17, 2005 edition of the Washington Post, a perhaps lesser known, December 16, 2005 story has also appeared on the Internet:
"...The order Bush signed in 2002 has allowed the agency to monitor the international phone calls and international e-mails of hundreds, and perhaps thousands, of people inside the United States, the report said.

"Government officials credited the new program with uncovering several terrorist plots, including one by Iyman Faris, a central Ohio trucker who pleaded guilty in 2003 to supporting al-Qaida by planning to destroy the Brooklyn Bridge.

"A federal judge in Virginia sentenced Faris in October 2003 to 15 years in prison for aiding and abetting terrorism, plus five years for conspiracy.

"Faris’ ex-wife, Geneva Bowling of Columbus, said Friday morning that she hadn’t heard about the NSA program but said it sounded appropriate if it helps catch terrorists.

'If you’re asking me if that’s fair, I think it is, because they don’t play fair. They don’t do anything fair. It’s not in their vocabulary,' she said.

"Bowling said she has assumed since before Faris’ arrest that federal agents had tapped her phone, and she didn’t mind.

'Anything they need to do to correct this problem is justified,' she said...."

Already, President Bush has made a statement about the surveillance in his weekly radio address:

"As President, I took an oath to defend the Constitution, and I have no greater responsibility than to protect our people, our freedom, and our way of life. On September the 11th, 2001, our freedom and way of life came under attack by brutal enemies who killed nearly 3,000 innocent Americans. We're fighting these enemies across the world. Yet in this first war of the 21st century, one of the most critical battlefronts is the home front. And since September the 11th, we've been on the offensive against the terrorists plotting within our borders....

"The authorization I gave the National Security Agency after September the 11th helped address that problem in a way that is fully consistent with my constitutional responsibilities and authorities. The activities I have authorized make it more likely that killers like these 9/11 hijackers will be identified and located in time. And the activities conducted under this authorization have helped detect and prevent possible terrorist attacks in the United States and abroad....

"This authorization is a vital tool in our war against the terrorists. It is critical to saving American lives. The American people expect me to do everything in my power under our laws and Constitution to protect them and their civil liberties. And that is exactly what I will continue to do, so long as I'm the President of the United States."

What is the correct balance between civil liberties and national security? I expect that over the next several months we'll be hearing a lot about this issue. And if--God forbid--we endure another attack such as that of 9/11, will debating that balance be worth the price of human lives? If only foresight were as reliable as hindsight!

77 Comments:

At 12/17/2005 1:06 PM, Anonymous Jay said...

Consider this a trackback.

Life Vs. Liberty

 
At 12/17/2005 4:46 PM, Anonymous civil truth said...

hundreds, perhaps thousands affected

A little math, 250 million Americans, 2,500 investigated (to be generous) -- that means a 1 in 100,000 chance of being affected, probably even smaller. Not a bad balance thus far in my estimation...

 
At 12/17/2005 5:10 PM, Blogger Camerinus said...

Not if you're that unlucky 1. I've been a Republican all my life, even worked for Bob Dole (knowing full well Clinton would be reelected), but I think the President who I've voted for twice has violated the Constitution. This isn't going to go away anytime soon. As much as I hate to admit it, President Bush's second term may be defined as a result of forthcoming investigations.

 
At 12/17/2005 5:59 PM, Anonymous Felis said...

Somebody allowed your enemies in.
Now your own constitution protects your enemies.
You have a choice: follow blindly the law or break it to protect the rest of your citizens.
Bush signed and therefore authorized breaking the law.
Well, he put his arse on line.
Now it's up to the general US public to decide what to do with him.
Had he waited for an ammendment (or whatever) the Brooklyn Bridge would be in our sweet memories only.
Question 1
Why do we insist that our laws must apply to our enemies who want to destroy these laws anyway?
Qustion 2
Were all our laws put into place to defend our freedom or were they put into place so we must defend their existence although they became irrellevant?

 
At 12/17/2005 7:14 PM, Blogger Theway2k said...

I doubt there will be an investigation. The NSA did not monitor calls made inside the USA, rather it was international calls made to suspicious characters OUTSIDE the USA. God knows with all the Islamofascist mosques paid for by Wahabi interests from Saudi Arabia there could and should have been monitoring inside the nation. The rules are different in war. We cannot allow a hostile entity to hide behind the rights and liberties awarded Americans when there is war. That is just plain ridiculous.

 
At 12/17/2005 7:50 PM, Blogger American Crusader said...

Theway2k said...

I doubt there will be an investigation.

I wish you were right but the Democratic Party is not going to let this matter go away easily. Even Republican Arlen Specter has called for an investigation. Next week should be very illuminating.
Bush needs to take his case directly to the people.

 
At 12/17/2005 9:45 PM, Anonymous Bozwell said...

"If you’re asking me if that’s fair, I think it is, because they don’t play fair."

Sounds fair to me.

 
At 12/17/2005 10:05 PM, Anonymous Nuke Iran said...

Wake-up..Worlds greatestthreat is Iranln

 
At 12/17/2005 10:36 PM, Anonymous Nuke Iran said...

You asked me about Alaska maybe being a reference to nuclear winter..I honestly didn't think of it that way but you my very well be correct.
Good Insight

 
At 12/18/2005 1:38 AM, Blogger samwich said...

Arlen Sphincter is a RINO and one of the worst sellouts in the Senate. He's playing to his voter base, hoping when he retires his son will win his Senate seat.

Bush will get my support and respect when he repeals Clinton's unconstitutional gun laws. He'd better get on the stick because he's gonna need the gun vote support to pull his Trotskyite Chimpymcwarhardon butt out of this mess. The Gun Vote knows Bush disenfranchised us with his "Gay Marriage Spook the Conservatives to the polls trick". His Constitutional Convention will eliminate the Second Amendment.
Gun owners who voted BUSH are like chickens who voted Colonel Saunders.

World War III will probaly begin as an Iran Nuclear fuel/North Korean Missile fired at Israel from Libya.

China and Russia will attack the US, my best guess is 2012, the sun will be at the middle of the Galactic Equator during Winter Solstice then. The Enoch and Mayan Calendar note this as a Holy Day when this age ends and a new age begins. China will host the 2008 Olympics and needs the "good press" that will help catch us with our "goodwill" pants down four years later. Rev 9:13-21 & Rev 16:12-16 is in the bull pen warming up.

The Star of Bethlehem was a conjunction of Jupiter, The Planet of Kings, and Regulus, The Star of Kings, commemorating the birth of The King of Kings, visible when looking west from Jerusalem, as hovering over the rooftops of Bethlehem. This occured in conjunction with Passover 1BC.
(Before you contradict me, be very very good at astronomy). Shepherds only watched their flocks at night during the spring lambing season as it was too sressfull for the birthing ewes to be rounded up and herded in at night. Another VERY significant Holy Day on the Enoch and Mayan Calendars.

The incumbent Pope who decided Christmas (Athanasian Creed?? or Constantine) should be in conjuntion with the winter solstice did it as a REVENUE GIMMICK!!! Churches (unheated and freeziing cold) were empty during the winter. Absent worshippers do not donate to the collection plate and it was decided to "Celebrate a Mass for Christ" during the cold winter to herd the faithful in to church to donate.

Merry Christmas, may the peace, joy and love of Jesus Christ the Savior be with all of you always.

S

 
At 12/18/2005 2:06 AM, Blogger samwich said...

Intellegent Design, DNA Mapping and Evolution.

Intelligent Design is a lame donkey to get the camel's nose in the tent of "religion is science".
An unproved theory.

DNA mapping and the Gene structure repudiate Evolution with out fail. This information is suppressed and ridiculed but is hard science just like the laws of Thermal Dynamics, Gravity, Chemistry and Astronomy.

Evolution is an unproved theory. Darwin wanted to be a priest but failed and in his anger promulgated Evolution to get even with God and the Church of England.
Evolutionalists do not donate money to churches. He aimed at the church's wallet.

S

 
At 12/18/2005 3:25 AM, Blogger beakerkin said...

Hold on critics of Bush. All international call never were protected according to Mark Levin.
Levin knows plenty about this area

 
At 12/18/2005 9:18 AM, Blogger Mussolini said...

The Patriot Act is something temporary. If we can understand that, then there is a time when we need to let go of it. The PA is an odious necessity that is best disposed of as soon as possible.

However, in the midst of a war and without having yet beaten.... (crap) the enemy, taking a weapon away is stupid.

I say "crap" because our politically correct media whore politicians cannot even find the balls to name the enemy: Islam.

The NSA was exposed in a book in 1982 - I still have it somewhere. How it survived my shipwreck, I do not know. The NSA has been doing exactly what it is accused of for decades. The government has known it, the press has known it, and the public has known it (via the book) since the times when BetaMax video was still a big thing.

To bring this all up (not out) now is pure political feces-flinging and it sickens me. Just in time to stir up the nation with probes and commissions blaming this administration right into the 2006 mid-term elections.

How.... convenient.

Just when I think I cannot lose any more respect for the left, I get the hell shocked out of me by how far the left sinks and how much more I hate the careless political partisanship that is the corrosive acid on this democracy.

Samwich - Alexander Hyslop wrote "The Two Babylons" where the details of the Babylonian origins of Christmas were stolen to assimilate converts into Catholicism. I lost it in the shipwreck, but have since ordered a copy from Amazon. Every time I see a woman decorating a Christmas tree, I laugh.

 
At 12/18/2005 11:18 AM, Blogger Iran Watch said...

"At some point our collective heads will come up out of the sand, probably by the force of an explosion; and we'll stand, mouths agape like so many fish out of water, trying to comprehend a situation we've done our best to ignore."
That's a fantastic quote.
I've been having constant problems at my original site and I have now moved.

 
At 12/18/2005 12:16 PM, Blogger American Crusader said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

 
At 12/18/2005 12:20 PM, Blogger Camerinus said...

From Samwich,
'DNA mapping and the Gene structure repudiate Evolution with out fail. This information is suppressed and ridiculed but is hard science just like the laws of Thermal Dynamics, Gravity, Chemistry and Astronomy.'

Definition of repudiate: Deny or reject.

Read Stephen Oppenheimer. If anything mitochondrial DNA validates evolutionary theory. By tracing back to the original "Eve", Oppenheimer is able to trace back modern man to approximately 200,000 years ago. His work also shows that one migrant group of no more than a few hundred crossed from Africa some 80,000 years ago and that all non-Africans can be traced back to this one group. Most Europeans today to trace their ancestry to mitochondrial DNA lines between 50,000 and 13,000 years ago. Aboriginal groups in Australia can be traced back to 70,000 years ago. Other scientists using the Y chromosome have come up with similar numbers.

 
At 12/18/2005 12:29 PM, Blogger Camerinus said...

From another author, Max Ingman:
* The most important date, in relation to the competing evolutionary theories, is the time when all the sequences coalesce into one -- the 'mitochondrial Eve.'
* From this study, a date of 171,500 years ago was obtained which fits remarkably well with that proposed in the recent African origin hypothesis.
* For us to accept multi-regionality, we would expect a much older date, as it would represent the common ancestor of Homo erectus rather than of Homo sapiens.
ttp://www.actionbioscience.org/evolution/ingman.html

 
At 12/18/2005 2:06 PM, Blogger samwich said...

Stephen Oppenheimer supports a theory.

 
At 12/18/2005 2:11 PM, Blogger Mike's America said...

A.O.W.: Thanks for keeping on top of this important story. It's clear from the timing of this serious national security leak that it is intended to draw positive support away from the President's strategy for VICTORY in Iraq that was so clearly validated by this week's election.

So we are using the full powers of the National Security Agency to monitor the contacts of Al Queda in this country with congressional notification and oversight by multiple agencies?

And this is bad how?

How would New Yorker's feel if the Brooklyn Bridge, that great symbol, was destroyed along with countless American lives?

Would the survivors be comforted by the fact that the man in Columbus who was plotting such a thing had his civil rights protected?

Civil Liberties were NEVER meant to protect those who would deprive others of theirs. That is a fundamental underlying principle of our freedom and liberty.

 
At 12/18/2005 2:12 PM, Anonymous Old Soldier said...

Seems like there is more interest in refuting creation than whether or not national security should trump personal privacy (or not).

The whole notion seems a bit premature in that the monitoring orders were signed by the president after a review by his legal advisors and the AG assured him he was within the law (that includes the constitution, I think).

As for your original query, I for one expect my government to take whatever measures are necessary to protect me whether it is a Republican or Democrat WH. I also expect my government to respect my freedom from unlawful search and siezure (those two are linked) where it is determined I am not an enemy of state. In other words, if in the pursuit of an enemy who may have crossed my path so as to cause me to be reviewed (spied upon, if you like), once I am found to be harmless, then I expect my information to be dumped, purged, deleted, etc., - not retained for big brother purposes. In these days of people wanting to murder my fellow citizens (and me) because we do not bow to their god demands extraordinary measures to indentify them. Being the "open" society that we are, it was without effort that the terrorists were able to pull off 9-11. I don't want that to happen again; and if that means profiling and covert monitoring, then so be it.

There is no reason for law abiding citizens to be fearful of a big brother syndrom other than to give credence to conspiracy theories and to be an obstruction to the in-power administration.

As for evolution being proven by DNA, I have these words. Your wrongheadedness does not warrant me changing my understanding of the creation of this world and its species.

Merry Christmas.

 
At 12/18/2005 3:01 PM, Blogger jakejacobsen said...

Great post AOW!

Two thoughts...

To the chicken littles who see our freedoms eroding no matter what the president does may I remind you that civil liberties have shrunk during every war we've fought. They snapped back just fine afterwards every single time.

Second, as Tom Clancy put it so well...The contituition is not a suicide pact.

thanks again AOW

 
At 12/18/2005 3:06 PM, Blogger samwich said...

Samwich was created by Elohiem.
Elohiem is a title. It means:
Head of the Council of the Gods.

96% of human (homosapiens) DNA matches Baboon DNA. 4% is different.

Samwich is a son of a God, subordinate to Jesus Christ, the only Savior and Redeemer of all mankind in all of the creations of the Almighty.

If you are descended from a monkey,
Samwich is cool with that.

S

 
At 12/18/2005 4:40 PM, Blogger Camerinus said...

"96% of human (homosapiens) DNA matches Baboon DNA. 4% is different."
Actually that would be correct if you used the DNA of a chimpanzee..an ape..but it's not true of a baboon...a monkey.
This might be hard for you to follow samwich, but monkeys have tails, apes don't.
Evolution has never stated that man is a descendent of monkeys,only that there is a common ancestor.
If you are willing to live in ignorance,
Camerinus is cool with that.

 
At 12/18/2005 4:49 PM, Blogger Camerinus said...

Samwich was created by Elohiem.
Actually the correct spelling is Elohim.
You can check for yourself at either the Catholic dictionary-
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/05393a.htm
or the Hebrew:
http://www.vorsoft.com/faith/hebrew/elohim.htm

Of course you might have meant his brother

 
At 12/18/2005 5:00 PM, Blogger Iran Watch said...

That is only one spelling camerinus.
One of the Hebrew names for God is ALEIM.
Different translations often bring about slight differences in spelling. How many different ways did you see Momar Kadaffi's name spelled? I still don't know if the West ever decided to stick to a consistent spelling.

What I really wanted to talk about though was a statement made by AOW..that the president took an oath to uphold the Constitution. I don't see how he can justify using these wire taps without warrants and upholding the Constitution. I readily admit I don't know all the provisions of the Patriot Act. I was surprised to learn that the New York Times had been holding onto this story for over a year which makes the timing of the story suspicious. Regardless of that though is did the president break the law.
Any experts on the provisions of the Patriot Act in here? It seems that Congress wasn't totally unaware of these wiretapping's.

 
At 12/18/2005 5:03 PM, Blogger Esther said...

GREAT post, as always, AOW.
,
Totally agree with what Felis said and I loved the Tom Clancy quote. Our enemies are using our freedoms against us. And the left is tripping all over themselves to strangle us with it.

 
At 12/18/2005 5:09 PM, Blogger Iran Watch said...

The Shining AOW...scariest book I ever read.

 
At 12/18/2005 7:42 PM, Blogger samwich said...

What is a coccyx? What are the pieces of bone above it?
What is the Lumbar Spine?
Can a Human (homo Sapiens)cross Breed with an ape? A Baboon? A Monkey? Piltdown Man? Neanderthal man?

Elohiem said no and don't try.
Samwich is cool with that and has not.
Elohiem has instructed Samwich that Samwich is not to monkey around sexually with anyone Samwich is not legally and lawfully married to.
Samwich is cool with that.

Samwich knows Samwich's origins.
Samwich knows Samwich's purpose for exisiting and what is expected of Samwich by Elohiem.
Samwich knows where Samwich is going for time and all eternity.
AOW will probably be there.
Ducky will probably be there.
Big Bubba will be there.
David Schantz will be there.
Mustang and G will be there.
Samwich has seen approriate evidence of the appropriate signs and tokens in their respective possession. They are not currently required to possess or display all of the signs and tokens to Samwich.
They are not required to possess all of them today.
They are not required to consult with Samwich.
They are required to aquire them one at a time, line on line, precept on precept as they are presented along their respective path by Elohiem.
Samwich invites.
Samwich does not compell.
The sons and daughters of "The Head of the Council of the Gods" know each other by the "Tokens and Signs" given them before they were assigned to this miserable mudball and charged with enduring it's distressfull inhabitants during our mortal sojourns.
Samwich is unencumbered with concern for Camerinus' origins, opinion, theory or responsibilities.
Samwich is not accountable to or for Camerinus.
Camerinus would find much argumentive fun at Front Page Magazine. Post as a libtard. Enjoy.

S

 
At 12/18/2005 7:46 PM, Blogger samwich said...

Mussolini, Merry Christmas.

S

 
At 12/18/2005 8:23 PM, Blogger Mussolini said...

Samwich:

Merry Christmas to you, too. While I can't celebrate Christmas for the literal birth of Christ, I do celebrate it as a season of giving and fun lights.

I also celebrate it as a finger in the eye of those who would deny the birth of Jesus, at all.

That God-in-flesh died so that I may live. Who else would have done such? Beside such charity, I am nothing.

I can only marvel.

 
At 12/18/2005 8:56 PM, Blogger samwich said...

Mussolini, I cannot think of any man who walks this earth who should be more grateful for the sacrifice and atonement of Jesus Christ the Savior than I should.

Christ is not annoyed about "when" we celebrate, He is pleased that we do celebrate.

Passover 1BC occured (gregorain calendar) on 6 April 1BC.

S

 
At 12/18/2005 9:01 PM, Blogger Always On Watch said...

Lots of comments here for me to read, but I just got home from my piano students' Christmas recital. I'm exhausted! I'll check back tomorrow.

 
At 12/18/2005 9:14 PM, Blogger Camerinus said...

"Samwich is unencumbered with concern for Camerinus' origins, opinion, theory or responsibilities."
but responds without fail
"Samwich knows where Samwich is going for time and all eternity."
samwich judges others knowing nothing at all
"Samwich is cool with that."
samwich has spent too much time alone in the jungle
PTSS??
Post as a tool. Enjoy.

 
At 12/18/2005 9:41 PM, Blogger American Crusader said...

Wow. I see it's a little off subject in here AOW. I wanted to comment on the president's speech. I thought he took the right approach, admitting mistakes but keeping Iraq at the forefront and telling the American people of to be patient and not turn back.
I can understand people not believing in evolution, if that's what they choose but I don't understand why people still believe that evolution implies that man evolved from monkeys. Maybe their mind is closed to other possibilities. Even St. Thomas Aquinas stated that God created the universe to operate according to reliable observable laws. Mitochondrial DNA has shown that anatomically modern man has existed for almost 200,000 years.
I read somewhere that if the Bible was traced backwards, tracing lifelines back to Adam and Eve, that the earth would be approximately 5000-6000 years old.
Christian mathematicians and astronomers knew their investigations would lead to knowledge of truth because they believed that God had established the universe according to laws that could be ascertained.
This is why Judeo-Christianity flourished and Islam didn't. Well hopefully I won't be condemned like camerinus for having a difference of opinion.

 
At 12/18/2005 10:16 PM, Blogger samwich said...

If camerinus can return control of Utah's Second Congressional District and Washington State's US Senate seats to republican control on election day Joe Cannon (mail@utgop.org) and Chris Vance (chairmanvance@wsrp.org) would love to hear from you.
Samwich is cool with that.

Samwich
Samwich and Associates
Advertising Copy Writers
Market Position and
Media Strategists

Give it ya best shot!

S

 
At 12/18/2005 10:25 PM, Blogger samwich said...

Gods created the universe to operate according to reliable observable laws.

Very Well Put.

Every blessing or gift obtained from God is a direct result of obedience to the law of God that the blessing or gift was predicted upon.

Malachi 8: 3-11

Great Treasures of Knowledge

S

 
At 12/18/2005 10:26 PM, Blogger samwich said...

TYPO predicated not predicted
S..........orry

 
At 12/18/2005 11:36 PM, Blogger MissingLink said...

I think I am confused.
Tell you what AOW.
It must be my age.

 
At 12/19/2005 2:07 AM, Blogger Elohiem said...

Children, children, children,
here's the straight skinny.

And there stood one among them who was like God (His name is Jehovah), and he said unto those who were with him: We will go down, for there is space there, and we will take of these materials, (which have been gathering dust for the last 4,500,000,000 years or so) and we will make an earth whereon these may dwell; And we will prove them herewith, to see if they will do all things whatsoever the Lord their God shall command them.

All are free to choose to obey or disobey. To choose life everlasting or condemnation everlasting.

As a side note, when the astronauts landed on the moon, NASA expected a layer of dust, based upon the gravitational pull of the moon, the amount of dust in the cosmos and 4&1/2 billion years to accumulate the dust, of about 40 feet.
The layer of dust was deep enopugh to account for about 10,000 years of the moon's existence, which in a funny kind of way does support the hypothesis that the moon was created during the second "Day" in Genisis.

Further timekeeping of the celestial clock indicates that Adam and Eve were "created" around 4070 BC and were expelled exactly 4000 years to the day before Passover 1 BC.

God's ways are not man's ways.
Man's ways are NOT God's ways.

E

 
At 12/19/2005 2:08 AM, Blogger samwich said...

Thanks Pop

S

 
At 12/19/2005 6:42 AM, Blogger Always On Watch said...

Felis,
It's not your age. Some of this discussion about creationism (aka intelligent design) and evulution was going on at the previous articl, too. I still haven't throoughly read all the previous comments on that topic, but will get that done later today--after I wake up.

 
At 12/19/2005 7:08 AM, Blogger Always On Watch said...

Crusader,
Did you find the President's speech last night a different kind of speech? His mannerisms and style of delivery seemed different to me. Not exactly a fireside chat, but something akin to it--a firm but friendly approach. My guess is that a lot rehearsal and coaching went into GWB's speech last night. Did I detect a sort of Reagan touch there?

Mitochondrial DNA has shown that anatomically modern man has existed for almost 200,000 years.
I read somewhere that if the Bible was traced backwards, tracing lifelines back to Adam and Eve, that the earth would be approximately 5000-6000 years old.

I've heard both of those points, of course. As I've said before, I tend not to worry about such things because I'm not of science bent. Faith is faith (God's domain), and science is science (man's attempt to understand God's domain), so I don't intermix the two in my own belief system. Those genealogies in the Bible are present to show the lineage of Jesus the Saviour--not to be a science text.

Furthermore, while the issue of how the universe came to be is an important topic, salvation is based on faith in the redemptive power of Jesus Christ and NOT dependent on any finer point. In this life, all of man's questions aren't answered (We see "through a glass, darkly"), but later they will be. God and His laws are perfect; man's understanding of those laws--an admirable pursuit--is imperfect. A Creator God who is perfect and constant implies a caring God; evolution, a theory which undergoes revision as more discoveries are made, casts us onto the sea of chance; that last is my biggest problem with evolution, but I know many Christians who have reconciled that conflict in their own minds. I just leave the matter to God--trust, you know. What little I know of science doesn't undermine that trust.

Perhaps my view on intelligent design vs. evolution is simplistic, but there you have it.

 
At 12/19/2005 7:15 AM, Blogger Always On Watch said...

Nuke Iran,
I read The Shining during a blizzard. I didn't plan to make the read any spookier that is already was. At the time, it just so happened that the book was the only unread paperback in the house, and I didn't know the book's theme and setting in advance. Was The Shining the scariest book I've ever read? As far as fiction goes, I think so.

I have two other Stephen King favorites: The Green Mile and Dreamcatcher. Mile translated very well to the big screen and had a good cast too.

 
At 12/19/2005 7:16 AM, Blogger Always On Watch said...

Nuke Iran,
Little addendum here...King's book On Writing is an outstanding work and is used in some college classrooms as a text to teach creative writing. I love that book!

 
At 12/19/2005 7:21 AM, Blogger Always On Watch said...

The Way 2K,
I doubt there will be an investigation. The NSA did not monitor calls made inside the USA, rather it was international calls made to suspicious characters OUTSIDE the USA.
I think there will indeed be an investigation--partisan politics won't allow for anything else. But if the investigation bears out the "outsideness" aspect, no further steps will be taken.

God knows with all the Islamofascist mosques paid for by Wahabi interests from Saudi Arabia there could and should have been monitoring inside the nation.
This matter has recently been before the Senate Judiciary Committee.

The rules are different in war. We cannot allow a hostile entity to hide behind the rights and liberties awarded Americans when there is war.
I agree! A Fifth Column in our midst must be dealt with.

 
At 12/19/2005 7:23 AM, Blogger Always On Watch said...

Camerinus,
This isn't going to go away anytime soon.
And could be a devastating distration, too.

 
At 12/19/2005 7:24 AM, Blogger G_in_AL said...

Samwich:
"Arlen Sphincter is a RINO and one of the worst sellouts in the Senate. He's playing to his voter base, hoping when he retires his son will win his Senate seat."

Who exactly does Arlen Specter owe his alligence to? The people who voted him into office, or the Party before his name? I was under the impression that elected officials were representitives of the people. Not voted in party hacks that are responsible for advancing an agenda.

Now, as the suspect's wife who was quoted in this post: "“'Anything they need to do to correct this problem is justified,' she said....""

She is just trying to save face and look like she is uber-patriotic even though her husband was an enemy of the state. But, she is quoting exactly what government toads would like us all to feel. While extreme measures in extreme circumstances may be necissary, we cannot fail to notice that this is an extreme violation of our civil liberties and the principles that we hold fundemenatal as Americans.

I dont care how much "danger" the nation is in. We cannot begin to calmly accept the eroded rights that would be handed down to us for the sake of protecting freedom. This mentality is like protecting your money by locking it in a safe forever. Sure, it's protected, but you never get to use it. The gun control crowd would suggest that the high rate of gun crime (which to date has caused more deaths than terrorism in America) is a national crisis. Yet how many conservatives readily jump up to defend their constitutional right in the face of that aggression upon there civil liberties? Suddenly though, a Republican president tells you that terrorism is so dangerous, that he needs to circumvent that whole thing about "unreasonable search and seizures" under the fourth amendment, and that becauase he is fighting terrorists, protecting your freedoms, and vexing evil... you should swallow it down with a smile.

I for one say no. Even if the measures are neccissary for the VERY short term, we still have a civic duty to balk about it and fight the ability of government to make permanent those powers that would restrict our ability to live out the "American Dream". If this should be allowed with no arguement, where exactly is the line to be drawn then? Where exactly do you say "too much"? At what point does the government's impression that you are a "danger" become too oppressive? If you allow the an inch.... they will take a mile.

 
At 12/19/2005 7:33 AM, Blogger Always On Watch said...

Typo! "distraction"

 
At 12/19/2005 7:36 AM, Blogger Always On Watch said...

Jake,
civil liberties have shrunk during every war we've fought.
True enough!

 
At 12/19/2005 7:44 AM, Blogger Always On Watch said...

Mussolini,
The NSA was exposed in a book in 1982...
Do you happen to recall the title?

Yes, we are at war, and that's why the Patriot Act was passed in the first place. Those months after 9/11 were a time of great apprehenson, and risking another such attack was--and still is--unacceptable.

 
At 12/19/2005 7:45 AM, Blogger Always On Watch said...

Civil Truth,
Others would cite the principles involved, as opposed to the percentage you mentioned. But your numbars do address the issue of balance.

 
At 12/19/2005 7:46 AM, Blogger Always On Watch said...

Bozwell,
There is nothing fair about this enemy. 9/11 and other attacks prove that aspect.

 
At 12/19/2005 8:30 AM, Blogger Always On Watch said...

G,
If this should be allowed with no arguement, where exactly is the line to be drawn then? Where exactly do you say "too much"? At what point does the government's impression that you are a "danger" become too oppressive? If you allow the an inch.... they will take a mile.
I think we can expect some argument--that is the way of politics. Now, are those politicians really concerned about preserving civil liberties, or are they more concerned about their careers and playing to the public?

Dictators can arise because citizens want protection. Therein lies the danger.

BUT if some of the Constitution experts I've been hearing are correct, particularly with regard to monitoring calls to known Al-Qaeda members, the President used his powers in a legal manner. Of course, so did FDR's administration when those internment camps were created.

I wouldn't say that I, personally, subscribe to Suddenly though, a Republican president tells you that terrorism is so dangerous, that he needs to circumvent that whole thing about "unreasonable search and seizures" under the fourth amendment, and that becauase he is fighting terrorists, protecting your freedoms, and vexing evil... you should swallow it down with a smile.

As to the ex-wife you mentioned, she may or may not be an uber-patriot. I do suspect, however, that she's very angry about what her husband was up to.

 
At 12/19/2005 8:31 AM, Blogger Always On Watch said...

Although I'm putting up another blog article in just a few minutes, I will come back to the comments section here at this article.
--AOW

 
At 12/19/2005 9:33 AM, Blogger Always On Watch said...

About that surveillance...

From an article by Dr. Walid Phares @ http://www.frontpagemag.com/
Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=20604 :

"Use their systems, passports, citizenship, laws, traditions, books and media, create internal divisions among them, and inflict defeat on the kuffars [infidels], for in the current balance of power, all we need to do is to use their weaknesses as our strength." – Abul ala’, comment posted in the Al-Ansar chat room, September 2005.

But America’s political debate is happening on a different planet: it’s about L.A. Law, finding scandals, and who can get a story out; regardless of reflecting on what we'll need to do to win the War on Terror. The new "story" was given a title before it is investigated...

Al-Qaeda knew it was under surveillance in America, but it didn’t know much about that system. Soon, it will know and will use this knowledge to its advantage. While some among us are rotating their pre-9/11 planet back in time, future jihad is railing against another of its enemies' fatal weaknesses.


Dr. Phares, who is fluent in Arabic and frequents terrorists' chat rooms, also discusses some of the legal aspects. The article he's written is worth reading and worth considering.

Beak: Hold on critics of Bush. All international call never were protected according to Mark Levin.
Levin knows plenty about this area

You might want to read that article I just cited as that article makes some excellent points.

 
At 12/19/2005 9:41 AM, Blogger Iran Watch said...

Ok..without bringing in any more King after this.."On Writing Well"..I've read it several times and although my writing skills will never make me a novelist, I now enjoy writing stories, even if I'm their only reader. That Stephen King, hands down is the unabridged edition of 'The Stand'.

 
At 12/19/2005 9:53 AM, Blogger samwich said...

G, Arlen Specter took an oath to protect, uphold and obey the Constitution. He votes against it every chance he gets. He has infringed my rights to hold a place of honor and power he is not worthy of.

 
At 12/19/2005 9:57 AM, Blogger Iran Watch said...

I was reading a comment made by samwich, which made me remember something I had just learned about in the last six months. I know this isn't the subject you were on samwich but there is a source of energy that would power the earth throughout the next millennium just littering the moon's surface..helium 3. This might have been an exaggeration, but one article stated that just one shuttle load would take care of America's need for energy for an entire year. Instead of investing so much time, energy, money and lives for middle eastern oil, we should use this energy to make us virtually free of fossil fuel. It might require the effort of the Manhattan Project or putting man on the moon, but wouldn't it be worth it? I know..a little utopian but it's up there being deposited everyday on the moon surface from the solar winds.

 
At 12/19/2005 10:05 AM, Blogger Always On Watch said...

Nuke Iran,
On the topic of sources of alternative energy sources...

I heard that waste in our various municipal dumps can be converted into gasoline. This conversion wasn't cost effective until the price of oil took its recent hike.

We truly need an energy source other than Middle Eastern oil!

 
At 12/19/2005 10:21 AM, Blogger Always On Watch said...

Old Soldier,
There is no reason for law abiding citizens to be fearful of a big brother syndrom other than to give credence to conspiracy theories and to be an obstruction to the in-power administration.
But does the slippery-slope argument have any merit?

As for evolution being proven by DNA, I have these words. Your wrongheadedness does not warrant me changing my understanding of the creation of this world and its species.
You'll find my similar viewpoint in one of my earlier comments here.

And, Old Soldier, Merry Christmas!

 
At 12/19/2005 10:21 AM, Blogger Camerinus said...

AOW..I respect your site will not bring the subject up again. From now on, I will not discuss evolution.
I don't want to upset the thought police.
Do you know where the name camerinus comes from? He was an early Christian martyr who died in the time of Roman emperors Diocletion and Maximian for not renouncing his faith.
I chose his name because I consider myself a Christian, I read the Bible daily as does my family but when someone tells me that I am going to hell because I don't agree with their opinion, I find that both insulting and dangerous.
That is exactly the type of behavior that Islam is forcing upon its followers. Christian dogma is no different than Muslim dogma. I think as Christians and members of a free society we should be above that.Western society has always condoned freedom of thought and the pursuit of knowledge, wherever it might take us.
I would never invoke the word of God as being my word and cast judgments on anybody's eternal soul. That is God's providence and his alone. Apparently though, Arlen Specter will be joining me because he also hasn't raised himself to God's standard.

 
At 12/19/2005 10:26 AM, Blogger Always On Watch said...

Mike,
I, too, have a problem with the timing of this security leak about NSA. So much manipulation of such leaks goes on, IMO.

Civil Liberties were NEVER meant to protect those who would deprive others of theirs. That is a fundamental underlying principle of our freedom and liberty.
The balance to which I referred in my commentary?

 
At 12/19/2005 10:38 AM, Blogger Always On Watch said...

Camerinus,
Thank you for pointing out the origin of your chosen name.

AOW..I respect your site will not bring the subject up again. From now on, I will not discuss evolution.
I don't take the discussion of evolution as any lack of respect.

I don't want to upset the thought police.
Thought police here? Hmmm...

Christian dogma is no different than Muslim dogma.
The my-way-or-the-highway portion is the same, but other dogmas in the two are quite different, as well as the enforcement of the dogma.

Western society has always condoned freedom of thought and the pursuit of knowledge, wherever it might take us.
Some might argue that such pursuit is dangerous. I've never felt so, but the what we call "knowledge" one day may morph into error on another day. Human interpretation of knowledge isn't perfect.

And, Camerinus, come back any time!

 
At 12/19/2005 11:23 AM, Blogger samwich said...

Iran, 22% of the power in ethanol (booze) gets to the road. 16% for gasoline. Ethanol has no microscopic grit like gasoline and engine wear is significantly reduced. Ford Taurus can be converted at the factory for about $85 and half of them now are sold converted. A carbureted engine needs larger main jets. A computer controlled fuel injected engine doesn't. Argentina requires all automobiles to run on alcohol to eliminate the need for imported oil and the economic drain with it.
We are funding terrorism by buying arab oil.
1 bushel of corn =2.7 gallons fuel 180-197 proof.
one acre of sugar beets produces 1200 gallons of ethanol every fourth year. Triple pane solar collectors trap enough heat to distill it as alcohol evaporates at 180 deg f. Filtering through corn meal will remove excess water and the corn meal can be mashed, fermented and distilled. Solar box ovens cook just fine and are cheap and easy to build.

Biodiesel cetane levels are difficult to control and are the variable factor. Research is bringing it under control. Biodiesel is a viable fuel now, it must be mixed with 20% #2 diesel to flow.

For every 1 billion dollars diverted to ethanol or biodiesel from imported oil, 15,000 jobs are created in the rural sector, very much in need of an economic boost.

Wind energy amortizes itself in about 11 years. There is plenty. I use it now on my mountain property. goggle "survival unlimited" and look over the permanent magnet alternators. Check otherpower.com and learn to make your own from scratch.

Camerinus, sorry to hear that you cannot convince me that you are better than I am. I make no judgement about you, your origins or destination. I state facts about mine. I know my God very well. I am expected to. I make no statement about you going to hell. You are the one who will choose, not I. I obeyed the commandment to learn all about God I could learn. The best thing I learned is that when my life quest became obedience to God I was endowed with great power and knowledge from on high. If you have a problem with that, take it up with the almighty, his rules rule. We sons who were offered as sacfrifice for the freedom of others enjoy great favor from God. We earned it. Washington and Utah republicans dumped on me and I dumped right back on them, to the tune of 120 million dollars hard money. Bad business decisions beget bad business losses. Wah Wah.
Cannon and Vance are dying to hear from you.
You were not alive even 100 years ago and must rely on the opinion of others about the past who were not alive then either, just like I must. Wah WAh. Obvious on it's face is your attempt to put words in my posts which donot exist. How frustrating it must be for you. In keeping with the the holiday season, kindly observe the mistletoe attached to my shirt tail.

G as a marine, which constitution did you fight to protect? The one our founding fathers ratified or the one that is almost nonexistent now?

AOW I sent out an interim trade report this morning. The turbulence in the currency markets has been explained by Iran's petroeuro decision. The oil buying world will follow suit.

S

 
At 12/19/2005 11:25 AM, Blogger Always On Watch said...

Samwich,
I saw that report. Here "it" comes!

 
At 12/19/2005 11:27 AM, Blogger Always On Watch said...

Samwich,
We are funding terrorism by buying arab oil.

Yes!!!

 
At 12/19/2005 12:28 PM, Blogger Camerinus said...

Sandwich.."Camerinus, sorry to hear that you cannot convince me that you are better than I am."
You actually believe your opinion matters that much?
You really do have a God complex, maybe that's part of the psyche of being a murderer/sniper/assassin.

 
At 12/19/2005 2:57 PM, Blogger samwich said...

Camerinus, my opinion sure got your goat!!!!

Vance and Cannon are dying to hear from you!!!

S

 
At 12/19/2005 3:15 PM, Blogger Iran Watch said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

 
At 12/19/2005 3:15 PM, Blogger G_in_AL said...

We are funding arab terrorism by sending out emergency aid and food packages to arab nations... I know, very Skrooge of me.

 
At 12/19/2005 3:24 PM, Blogger Iran Watch said...

Vance and Cannon are dying to hear from you!!!

It's sad seeing people resorting to threats because of a difference of opinion. I'm glad I served after the Vietnam War.

 
At 12/19/2005 4:00 PM, Blogger Camerinus said...

Vance and Cannon?
Imaginary friends hanging out with you at the Vietnam War Memorial?

 
At 12/19/2005 4:49 PM, Blogger samwich said...

Nuke Iran, what threat???
Chris Vance is the Washington State Republican Party Chairman.

Joe Cannon is the Utah State Republican Party Chairman.

When their copy writers come up with a more persuasive message and their campaign managers come up with a more effective strategy than I come up with, they will win the two US senate seats, the one Congressional seat and the one Governor's mansion I have petitioned the voters to grant to the Democrats. The voters disagreed with me on Washington State Attorney General Girlyman Rob McKenna in 2004. Wah Wah.

In light of the fact you accuse me of communicating threats contact the Federal Protective Service in Salt Lake City, Utah. Ask for Special Agent David Cook or Smith (I forget, one of them was FOPS and the other clown was Homeland Security)). When he contacts me I will notify him of which Congressman or Senator's reelection efforts I itend to louse up and invite him to kindly observe the mistle toe attached to my shirt tail.

S..........heesh

 
At 12/19/2005 5:03 PM, Blogger Iran Watch said...

If I misread or misinterpreted them please accept my apology. I looked at your web site and I've known a few military people who have named their weapons.
I named my weapon...Godzilla, but that's a completely different story.

 
At 12/19/2005 5:43 PM, Blogger samwich said...

Nuke Iran, my weapon in Vietnam and Cambodia was an M-16. Four hours into a Five hour firefight in Cambodia it quit from powder fouling clogging the bolt carrier.
Your freedom is protected with the 7th place winner in the reilability trials (how comforting). Thank the Senator from Connecticut/Colt who was Chair of the Armed Services Committee. Hundreds of good young American men died due to an unreliable weapon.

After Sniper School my weapon was an XM-21, a national match M-14 with a Redfield 3x-9x daylight scope in the ART mount, an AN PVS-2 Starlight scope and a Sionics Noise Suppressor (silencer). Loaded with the Starlight mounted it weighed 19 lbs, with the daylight scope it weighed 13 lbs. I could bust grapefruit at 600 meters, every time. I named it "Mormon Scunion".

Israel chose the most reliable military self loader in history, the AK 47 with three improvements which made it even more reliable and effective in combat.

Please spare me Camerinus' fabricated lies about my posted comments.

Thank You

S

 
At 12/19/2005 6:01 PM, Blogger American Crusader said...

The M-16 7th in reliability test??
Is that still true?
USCG trained with the M-16's but on most boardings we used either a 45 or a 12 guage.

 
At 12/19/2005 7:52 PM, Blogger samwich said...

American Crusader, 7th place surrenderd to 8th when Israel added a sand scrubber to the AK operating rod, sand screens to the gas vents and accurate barrels. They also changed calibers to 5.56mm and 7.62mm NATO.

The Soviet Union upgraded the AK 47 to the AK 74 in 1974 and rechamberd it to the 7.62x39 mm round necked down to 5.6mm daimeter bullet.
China still uses the 7.62x39 Russian round because they have billions of rounds on hand, intended for American sale but banned from US import due to the armor piercing steel core.

What the US did was change to a propellant with less powder residue. The standard powder was BL(C)-2 (WC 846), with the heavier 62 brain bullet the equivalent of H335 (WC844)is used. It burns a bit faster.

The M-16 had little effect on Viet Cong full of opium and speed. With the 7.62mm round the lucky ones were the ones who didn't live.
The 45 acp is 93% effective as a man stopper, the 9mm, 53% effective. The 12 guage speaks for itself!

Camerinus' denigration of my service to my country will be his to explain to the Lord.

My Lord told me that "Greater Love hath no man than he who would lay down his life for his bretheren" and that as "I had served my country, I served God".

That is why we whose lives were offered enjoy his favor. You included.

S

 

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