Saturday, November 26, 2005

No Bibles For Prisoners At Gitmo

My husband and I had a wonderful vacation in Southern California. We gazed at the sunset on Laguna Beach, toured the Getty Center, enjoyed Thanksgiving dinner with family, checked out the glitz on Hollywood Boulevard, shopped in Chinatown and on Olvera Street, ate lunch at Fabiolus Cafe on Sunset Boulevard, strolled the pier at Santa Monica, cruised through Beverly Hills--all those touristy things we never tire of when we visit my in-laws, who live right on Hollywood Boulevard. Unlike last year's visit, this year the weather cooperated, and, for the most part, we had cerulean-blue skies and summerlike temperatures.

But, of course, we weren't completely in fantasy land because every morning I picked up a copy of the newspaper. And one day the following surreal story appeared in the Los Angeles Times:
Guantanamo Bay Prisoner Sues U.S. to Get a Bible:
The government says certain books are withheld because they could 'incite' inmates


"At the U.S. prison for suspected terrorists at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, everyone can get a Koran, but no one gets a Bible.

"Saifullah Paracha, a 58-year-old former Pakistani businessman with alleged ties to Al Qaeda leader Osama bin Laden, has been in U.S. custody since 2003. Like the other inmates at Guantanamo Bay, he has a copy of the Koran. But he also wants an English translation of the King James version of the Bible.

"Paracha believes that because the Bible is one of the scriptures accepted in Islam, he is entitled to a copy to read in his small wire-mesh cell. But after his lawyer shipped him a Bible, along with two volumes of Shakespeare, prison officials confiscated the package.

"Paracha's American lawyer filed suit in U.S. District Court in Washington, demanding that Paracha be given the Bible and copies of Hamlet and Julius Caesar. The government responded that certain books were kept from prisoners because they could 'incite' them....

"Although a judge has not sorted out the dispute, the prison has recently 'cleared for release' the Shakespeare plays. But still no Bible for Paracha."
Maybe I'm missing the point here, but I don't understand why Paracha cannot have a copy of the Bible. Furthermore, I'm relatively certain that should the inmates at Gitmo decide to desecrate Bibles Christians will not riot in the streets.

In his Weblog article "Working out the Counterterrorist Kinks," Daniel Pipes made the following comment about the above newspaper article:
"In considering U.S. policy toward terrorists, I argue that the authorities face a whole new set of issues for which, however slowly and clumsily, they are developing a coherent set of regulations and guidelines.

"Just how slow and clumsy that process comes vividly to light in an article by Richard A. Serrano in the Los Angeles Times....

"That the U.S. government provides suspected Islamist terrorists with Korans but refuses them Bibles exactly sums up its confusion."

33 Comments:

At 11/26/2005 6:46 PM, Blogger Mr. Beamish the Instablepundit said...

Huh?

I'm still on the "why are we giving them food?" page of the debate.

 
At 11/27/2005 2:46 AM, Anonymous Felis said...

"I argue that the authorities face a whole new set of issues for which, however slowly and clumsily, they are developing a coherent set of regulations and guidelines."
Yep, a bureaucratic system and the rules weren't put in place.

"I'm still on the "why are we giving them food?" page of the debate."
LOL, tent to agree here or at least why aren't they being re-indoctrinated.

 
At 11/27/2005 8:35 AM, Blogger LASunsett said...

AOW,

LA can be fun. Laguna Beach is great. If you would have stayed on Hwy 1 and driven a little further, you would have seen my favorite spot, San Clemente.

 
At 11/27/2005 9:25 AM, Anonymous Bozwell said...

What Mr. Beamish said!

 
At 11/27/2005 11:14 AM, Blogger Shah Alexander said...

Prisoners need bibles? How about the Old Testament? The authority should provide some copies, before prisoners complain.

Any Hindus and Buddhists among prisoners (very unlikely)? Then, armed forces need to deliver their scriptures.

 
At 11/27/2005 12:49 PM, Anonymous elmers brother said...

You'd think giving them a bit of the truth wouldn't be so bad, but we are even afraid to offend them with that.

 
At 11/27/2005 1:39 PM, Blogger David Schantz said...

Sounds like a nice Holiday.Let the prisoners have Bibles. It might help them see their mistakes.This really shouldn't surprise us though. In most places in the United States children are not allowed to have a Bible at school.

God Bless America, God Save The Republic

 
At 11/27/2005 3:09 PM, Blogger Jason_Pappas said...

Of course, we see, once again, that multi-culturalism results in the demonization of Western culture and the unlimited respect of any other culture - including the enemy’s culture.

 
At 11/27/2005 4:19 PM, Blogger Bassizzzt said...

The government's method of thinking:

"Let's give them qurans, because if we don't, the press will come down hard on us."

And the latest:
"Let's hang tough by not giving them what they need, just to play badass, but let's keep on giving them the books of hate (The Quran).

 
At 11/27/2005 5:38 PM, Blogger Always On Watch said...

Persaonally, I cannot think of any "religious" book more inciteful than the Koran, and our tax dollars are funding those Korans. Yet a private individual cannot sent a prisoner a Bible?

I suspect that few Muslims have read the New Testament. Maybe I'm wrong about that, but I don't think so.

 
At 11/27/2005 5:39 PM, Blogger Always On Watch said...

Beamish,
My husband is on the same page as you. LOL.

 
At 11/27/2005 8:06 PM, Anonymous Jake Porter said...

I don't think tax dollars should go to give them any books, food yes but books no.

If they want the Korean or the Bible I see no problem with people sending them in.

I would argue they need the Bible and I can think of many churches that would send them one. Maybe they could learn about loving their neighbors.

 
At 11/27/2005 9:34 PM, Blogger Jason_Pappas said...

Jake, if they wanted a Korean, we'd have much less to worry about.

I say edit out the harsh passages from the Koran and call their bluff about how those passages don't really apply anymore. When they finish reading those two pages, give them the New Testament. It would be an interesting experiment.

 
At 11/27/2005 10:00 PM, Blogger Always On Watch said...

Jason,
Little play on an error: if they wanted a Korean, we'd have much less to worry about? That's funny!

Seriously, though, I'd like to see that experiment you mentioned. Might be one way to reform Islam, huh?

Jake,
Don't feel bad. Typos and misspellings happen.

 
At 11/27/2005 10:12 PM, Blogger forrestshalom said...

"That the U.S. government provides suspected Islamist terrorists with Korans but refuses them Bibles exactly sums up its confusion."

i don't think the usa government is confused at all. it is a
confirmed ally of islam!

everything i read substantiates this incredible fact.

what a doomed alliance indeed however in light of what
is prophetically written in the jewish scriptures about the enemies of God and israel.

shalom

 
At 11/27/2005 11:37 PM, Blogger Esther said...

Glad you had a great trip, AOW. Gotta love the Fabiolus Cafe. :)

What a weird story. They wouldn't give him a bible? Now if this were school, and someone wasn't allowed something, they'd take away everything wouldn't they? If no bibles, then no Korans either.

 
At 11/27/2005 11:43 PM, Blogger The Exile said...

Where do I start on something this ludicrous?

Bibles? But that's government property! We can't have Bibles on government property! That would be promoting a religion! Korans are OK, though.

I can see why they'd want a Bible: it'll give them something to spit on. But Shakespeare? What, did they break one of the legs of their cot off and need something to prop it up with?

Even if this savage could read, which would be surprising, I can't imagine that he'd want to read anything by a white European infidel.

And did anyone ask Muqtar if he checked the drawer of his night table? In most luxury hotels the Good Samaritans usually put a Bible in there. Maybe he should ask them to check next time room service brings him his broasted chicken and asparagus tips.

My God, even the military has gotten silly. We are in deep trouble.

What's it going to take before we tell the Left to sit down and shut up and let the adults handle this?

 
At 11/28/2005 12:26 AM, Anonymous gravelrash said...

"What's it going to take before we tell the Left to sit down and shut up and let the adults handle this?"
It is going to come to that, you do all realise that, don't you? Forcefully.
Jason_pappas: "I say edit out the harsh passages from the Koran and call their bluff about how those passages don't really apply anymore. When they finish reading those two pages, give them the New Testament."
LOL!!! Good one mate.

 
At 11/28/2005 9:06 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

We've become a nation of laws and lawyers. We no longer have "leaders". We no longer trust "leaders". We no longer want "leaders". We have "levelled" mankind and we think ourselves George Bush's equal. We write stupid rules and regulations instead of trusting the commanders at Gitmo to make the right decisions. We've made the "informant" (reporter) and "bureaucrat" kings. On the basis of the informants "reports" we get bureaucrats to fashion universal commands that please the masses. The end of "representative democracy" cannot be far off. Soon the mob will demand direct rule.

-FJ

 
At 11/28/2005 12:27 PM, Blogger Mr. Ducky said...

Well, first off, AOW, this decision was made by the concentration camp commanders. it serves nicely to fuel far right impressions of Islam.

Second, the rioting over the "toilet story" is a false claim. Those demonstrations did not occurr because of the story but due to other political grievances.

Research it if you like but you make entirely too much of a fairly trivial story.

 
At 11/28/2005 1:15 PM, Blogger American Crusader said...

Glad you had a nice holiday although hearing about warm temperatures always makes me jealous.
I might be missing the point here, but I can see how the Bible might be used to incite other prisoners. I also think that they might be trying to get their hands on a Bible just so that they can desecrate it. Why don't they just use a copier and copy off the pages from the Bible? They could distribute a couple of pages a day and if any outburst occurs just stop.

 
At 11/28/2005 1:21 PM, Blogger American Crusader said...

still laughing at "If they want a Korean".
thanks Jake...I needed a good laugh

 
At 11/28/2005 1:29 PM, Blogger gandalf said...

When the British forces went to Iraq they were not allowed to take a bible with them, this was to avoid offending the population of Iraq.

By that logic there should not be any copies of the Qu'ran in the UK as it could offend the UK population.

A highly simplistic view I agree, but what the hell it works for me.

 
At 11/28/2005 5:57 PM, Blogger Kyle said...

this is what really gets me. We can witness bureaucratic screw ups like this time after time after time, and yet there is still a sizable chunk of the population that wants MORE government in their lives.

 
At 11/28/2005 9:00 PM, Anonymous Felis said...

"yet there is still a sizable chunk of the population that wants MORE government in their lives."
How true.
And they cannot wait to give up their freedom in the name of empty slogans.

 
At 11/28/2005 10:26 PM, Blogger Always On Watch said...

To all:
Thanks for stopping by (even you, Duck, though I don't quite follow what you're trying to say--it serves nicely to fuel far right impressions of Islam, and I disagree with you about those riots).

I guess that I just don't understand why the prisoners get Korans and Shakespeare, but not the Bible.

Exile,
I'm still chuckling over your comment. My husband found himself in total agreement on all you said.

 
At 11/28/2005 10:31 PM, Blogger Always On Watch said...

FJ,
The end of "representative democracy" cannot be far off. Soon the mob will demand direct rule.

Was it Plato that said something like "One day, little puppy dogs will stand up on their hind legs and demand their rights." My mother used to say something like that when whiners got on her nerves, but I have no idea if the quote is in any way accurate.

Lawyers = scum-sucking bottom feeders.
And lawyers spout legalese which obscures the truth.

 
At 11/28/2005 10:37 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Mr. Ducky cites the "Concentration Camp Commanders."

Interesting. Let's pursue this and obtain a final solution. We're pussyfooting around here.

Let's just get it over with. Let's roll out the amtrak cargo trains. Let's dig up good ol' Rheinhard Heydrich for advice.

Let's install, implement, and fire up those ovens, and let's get Dow Chemical to manufacture the Zyklon B so we can resolve this government pussy-fotting about with silly political correctness, and of course, the Islamist terrorist problem once and for all.

Bottom line: if we're going to call GTMO a "copncentration camp" let's give all the bleeding heart frikkin' liberals something to really worry about.

 
At 11/28/2005 10:39 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

PS - Zyklon B might not be enough. Let's bury them all in pig skins and teach those muslim bastards a harsh lesson.

 
At 11/28/2005 11:25 PM, Blogger samwich said...

As I see and research the world political stage, I let my perspective be tempered with experience.

The rallies in the stock market indexes has ended and the bias is still to the down side.

The fundamentals inidcate the world is on the brink of change.
We have upon us the "wars and rumors of wars", the shakings and tempests of earthquakes increasingly more frequent and severe. Volcanoes erupt more frequently.

I liked Mustang's comment about a Marine not wondering if he had made any difference in the world with his life. I've been where they've been and done what they've done. I do wish the run of the mill Army had the same self respect the average marine has.
The militarty is a CONTROLLED environment. One commander had the authority to make the decision
about no Bible and higher ranking Headquarters (Policy) Commaders are unwilling to over rule the lower ranking Operational (Procedural) Commanders unless good cause can be shown why a disliked policy needs change.

In short, it was one mid level military commander who established the policy and the Army decided to let the courts decide the issue.
The Army now has a higher authority to be the "bad guy".

Like T.E. Lawrence of Arabia's rejected request for Field Artillery from the British High Command for the Arabs fighting the Turks. The ranking Military Officer who refused Lawrence's request was asked why and his reply: "because I have orders to obey, thank God"

S

 
At 11/29/2005 3:05 PM, Blogger Tito said...

Pappas,

I see we are both on the same (two) pages.

Now we wouldn't want to offend any guilty white liberals in the beltway if we started handing out Bibles to every extremist. Becuase if we did, we'd have to start with Nancy Pelosi so she can 'reacqaint' (I'm a poor speller) herself to her own #amn religion.

God bless everyone.

 
At 11/29/2005 5:20 PM, Blogger samwich said...

Duck, again you and I see the same thing from different perspectives, separated by a common language.

Concentration Camp Commander is a correct definition of who made the decision and issued the order.

The "Operation" is to keep a concentration of Taliban hostiles concentrated in a controlled encampment facility.

It does have an unsavory spin, just like the rest of the Bush Administration.

S

 
At 12/01/2005 8:51 PM, Blogger newc said...

Give that detainee a Bible, Shakespeare, and offer him a Quotable Mark Twain.

 

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