Islamic Basketball
(All emphases by Always On Watch)
Just when I thought I'd take the entire weekend off from blogging, I came across this one.
From the February 19, 2006 Chicago Tribune and reprinted in the February 25, 2006 Washington Post:
"...[T]he girls can't accept that they have only been allowed to compete against girls basketball teams from other Muslim schools. There are only four in the Chicago area, they complain, and their competition isn't exactly tough.Too bad! If these Muslim girls feel so strongly about the restrictions of Islamic law, let them play games against other Muslim schools. After all, the parents of the boys in the public schools are paying the taxes which support the schools' sports programs.
"Since last year they've been beseeching Coach Farida Abusafa, 26, an English teacher who also coaches sports, to ask public schools and non-Muslim private schools if their girls teams would be willing to compete against girls from the Universal School.
"The problem is the schools would have to agree to bar men and boys above the age of puberty from watching the games.
"'It's not like it's a sin to play a public school,' Abusafa said. 'The problem is the males coming to the game.'
"The dilemma underscores the balancing act many Muslims perform as they toggle between American and Middle Eastern culture....
"Conceivably, the Muslim girls could play in headscarves, sweat pants and long sleeves. But the bulky attire might make playing difficult, they said...."
We don't need to Islamify basketball!
posted by Always On Watch @ 2/25/2006 05:01:00 PM
49 comments
49 Comments:
I am almost encouraged that they want to play basketball. At least this shows that they are interested in western things. But I agree that we shouldn't Islamize our sports activities.
P.S.
Aren't you celebrating your birthday?
I was thinking the same thing AC. If the kids can't see the sense in the stupid ruling, maybe there is hope yet.
Then again, probably not. They just need more brainwashing.
Crusader,
I celebrated on Thursday and Friday. But I had to forego celebrating today because all those goodies gave me a tummy ache.
Yes, playing b'ball is good.
One Muslim girl mentioned, it's not "a sin." Well, that's a relief!
It is crap like this that really angers me. The muslim idea that men are so base that seeing women in certain clothes is a sin is simply one more bit of proof that islam is a backwards ideaology.
Mark my words, there can be no peace with islam. In the end it is going to be a world of only islam or without islam.....which do you think I'll vote for?
Start your own sport.
"Burkaball"
The Loser gets stoned.
The winner gets the booty of the losers.
Is that less harem for you?
Sometimes, it is the subtleness of jihad that makes it so dangerous. We expect the violence, but many are unaware of the slow, patient, and persistent nature of this enemy. A little here, a little there, chipping away at the societal norms in this country, Islam has to go against the grain in just about anything they come in contact with.
LA said, A little here, a little there, chipping away at the societal norms in this country, Islam has to go against the grain in just about anything they come in contact with.
Islamification! In some ways, this process is more dangerous than violent jihad.
Kevin,
"Burkaball"
Sounds like a plan.
Beamish,
The other alternative, is slower and less bloody - Westernization.
Assuming there's time. And assuming that dhimmitude doesn't triumph.
Kender,
The muslim idea that men are so base that seeing women in certain clothes is a sin is simply one more bit of proof that islam is a backwards ideaology.
The Koran paints women as evil temptresses. The way that Islamic law treats women should have femininsts frothing at the mouth, but they aren't doing so.
Patrick,
Give the brainwashing time.
We may yet see the special games so as not to offend "Muslim sensitivities."
AOW, Happy Birthday! This was the first I'd heard about Muslim basketball. I don't think I want my tax dollars to pay for it.
God Bless America, God Save The Republic.
There are parts of this story that are not so strange The Yeshiva I went to competted against other Yeshivas and a few local parochial schools.We did not compette against the local public school.
The clothing part is odd but the seduction of popular culture is infectious. Mr Beamish forgets the most subversive web site for aspiring totalitarians, the crank files.
It is odd but I do get hits from Syria, UAE, Morocco but no comments.
Hey, at least they're keeping their restrictions in the "private" sphere and to themselves. As long as they continue to do that, and not insist that the rest of the world adapt to them (through use of the "federal" public sphere...[ACLU's greatest sin]), I've got no problem with it.
Hey, the Spartans used to insist that the girls engage in sport completely NAKED, as the men did. And of course, in holiday parades women had to march naked as well. Such a regulation would go a long ways in reducing obesity in America today. But I wouldn't make it a federal law. But if some private nudist camp practices the old form, no sweat off my brow.
-FJ
beak,
You're a Greek at heart...naked Twister. It's a great image! Talk about an assault on cultural norms. I wonder how well it works when coerced, and not accepted "voluntarily" abu-Ghraib. I suspect it (forgive the pun) stiffens resistance if done in "mixed" company.
-FJ
from the Jowett introduction to Plato's Republic...
Socrates proceeds:--The guardians of our state are to be watch-dogs, as we have already said. Now dogs are not divided into hes and shes--we do not take the masculine gender out to hunt and leave the females at home to look after their puppies. They have the same employments--the only difference between them is that the one sex is stronger and the other weaker. But if women are to have the same employments as men, they must have the same education--they must be taught music and gymnastics, and the art of war. I know that a great joke will be made of their riding on horseback and carrying weapons; the sight of the naked old wrinkled women showing their agility in the palaestra will certainly not be a vision of beauty, and may be expected to become a famous jest. But we must not mind the wits; there was a time when they might have laughed at our present gymnastics. All is habit: people have at last found out that the exposure is better than the concealment of the person, and now they laugh no more. Evil only should be the subject of ridicule.
Plato, "Gorgias"
Soc. Will you ask me, what sort of an art is cookery?
Pol. What sort of an art is cookery?
Soc. Not an art at all, Polus.
Pol. What then?
Soc. I should say an experience.
Pol. In what? I wish that you would explain to me.
Soc. An experience in producing a sort of delight and gratification, Polus.
Pol. Then are cookery and rhetoric the same?
Soc. No, they are only different parts of the same profession.
Pol. Of what profession?
Soc. I am afraid that the truth may seem discourteous; and I hesitate to answer, lest Gorgias should imagine that I am making fun of his own profession. For whether or no this is that art of rhetoric which Gorgias practises I really cannot tell:-from what he was just now saying, nothing appeared of what he thought of his art, but the rhetoric which I mean is a part of a not very creditable whole.
Gor. A part of what, Socrates? Say what you mean, and never mind me.
Soc. In my opinion then, Gorgias, the whole of which rhetoric is a part is not an art at all, but the habit of a bold and ready wit, which knows how to manage mankind: this habit I sum up under the word "flattery"; and it appears to me to have many other parts, one of which is cookery, which may seem to be an art, but, as I maintain, is only an experience or routine and not an art:-another part is rhetoric, and the art of attiring and sophistry are two others: thus there are four branches, and four different things answering to them. And Polus may ask, if he likes, for he has not as yet been informed, what part of flattery is rhetoric: he did not see that I had not yet answered him when he proceeded to ask a further question: Whether I do not think rhetoric a fine thing? But I shall not tell him whether rhetoric is a fine thing or not, until I have first answered, "What is rhetoric?" For that would not be right, Polus; but I shall be happy to answer, if you will ask me, What part of flattery is rhetoric?
Pol. I will ask and do you answer? What part of flattery is rhetoric?
Soc. Will you understand my answer? Rhetoric, according to my view, is the ghost or counterfeit of a part of politics.
Pol. And noble or ignoble?
Soc. Ignoble, I should say, if I am compelled to answer, for I call what is bad ignoble: though I doubt whether you understand what I was saying before.
Gor. Indeed, Socrates, I cannot say that I understand myself.
Soc. I do not wonder, Gorgias; for I have not as yet explained myself, and our friend Polus, colt by name and colt by nature, is apt to run away.
Gor. Never mind him, but explain to me what you mean by saying that rhetoric is the counterfeit of a part of politics.
-FJ
AOW,
Very spectacular: http://frontpagemag.com/Articles/Printable.asp?ID=18479
FJ,
at least they're keeping their restrictions in the "private" sphere and to themselves.
That's fine by me. It's the proposal to ban boys from the games if those games are played against public schools (other schools as well) which bothers me.
Also, it is unusual for private schools to play against public schools in most sports. As Beak pointed out: The Yeshiva I went to competted against other Yeshivas and a few local parochial schools.We did not compette against the local public school. I think that what Beak pointed out is the norm. So, of course, the restriction as to which schools the Muslims girls compete against isn't anti-Muslim at all, and there shouldn't be a dilemma as mentioned in the article: But the girls can't accept that they have only been allowed to compete against girls basketball teams from other Muslim schools. There are only four in the Chicago area, they complain, and their competition isn't exactly tough....The dilemma underscores the balancing act many Muslims perform as they toggle between American and Middle Eastern culture...
FJ: the Spartans used to insist that the girls engage in sport completely NAKED, as the men did. And of course, in holiday parades women had to march naked as well. Such a regulation would go a long ways in reducing obesity in America today.
LOL. And I'll bet that the events would be well attended, too.
I just listen to the Islamists say that the "decadence" of Western civilization threatens them. GOOD! Bring on the Girls Gone Wild videos!
FJ,
From your citations from Socrates:
Evil only should be the subject of ridicule.
Some interesting possible applications there.
cookery, which may seem to be an art, but, as I maintain, is only an experience or routine and not an art
Well, I'm making meat loaf tonight, and getting it to come out right IS an art. (Just kidding)
I am afraid that the truth may seem discourteous
I can think of lots of applications for that one!
Beamish,
the Islamists say that the "decadence" of Western civilization threatens them.
Then they can go back to their own homeland.
Bring on the Girls Gone Wild videos!
My husband laughed at that reference.
Iran Watch,
Girls basketball is quite popular in the larger school systems. And Chicago is the home to the Bulls.
Here in the D.C. area, basketball is a very popular indoor winter sport for all the schools, public and private.
From the link which FJ provided...
"A Madrassah in Bridgeport, Illinois," by Daniel Pipes:
Islamic schools constitute perhaps the least known area of Muslim institutional life in the United States, acting largely out of public view but with many signs suggesting their radicalization. When a reporter has the rare chance to interview faculty and students, especially with a photographer in tow, it’s an important opportunity.
Marguerite Michaels of Time Magazine got “an unusual degree of access” to the inside of the Universal School in Bridgeview, Illinois, sixteen miles southwest of downtown Chicago, with 638 students in pre-K through 12th grades. She wrote up her impressions at “The Model School, Islamic Style” and Robert A. Davis took some striking pictures....
· “Casual conversation between girls and boys is discouraged at all times,” she reports. “They can’t socialize,” so any communication between the sexes is limited to writing.
· “Older girls must wear the hijab (light blue for middle schoolers, gray or white for high schoolers) and a calf-length navy top that resembles a raincoat.” The astonishing photograph of eight covered girls playing basketball brings to mind the female Islamist revolutionaries who rose against the shah of Iran in the late 1970s....
Other attitudes concern the place of Muslims in the United States:
A preoccupation with foreign policy rounds out the picture:
· “They are obsessed with foreign politics,” says Steve Landek, the mayor of Bridgeview. “I come to talk to them about better sidewalks. They want to know how to run for Congress so they can change America’s Israeli policy.”
· Assigned in English class to write about his American Dream, a 15-year-old wrote that the territories under Israeli control should be returned to the Palestinians and “the Jews should be left to suffer.”
[T]his “model school” quietly and openly churns out graduates hoping they will create an Islamic States of America.
The article includes a photo of the girls' b'ball team.
Sorry always, but the link wasn't mine. Some other "anonymous"... there are lots of us...thklgnu
-FJ
FJ,
Oops! My bad! I guess I was distracted--or something.
AOW,
It was me as posting this "basketball pic" link as anonymous - sorry t'was too early for me.
I feel sorry every time when I see Muslim girls trying to have their "normal" teenage lives hidden under headscarves.
I'm sure you make a mean meatloaf, always. I didn't mean to slam "cookery", just comment on "attiring" and other "sham" arts (ie - clothes can be used to disguise the actual health and physical condition of the body... and so attempt to explain the "logic" behind some of those seemingly "odd" Spartan practices)... from the Jowett introduction to Plato's "Gorgias"
'What is the art of Rhetoric?' says Polus. Not an art at all, replies Socrates, but a thing which in your book you affirm to have created art. Polus asks, 'What thing?' and Socrates answers, An experience or routine of making a sort of delight or gratification. 'But is not rhetoric a fine thing?' I have not yet told you what rhetoric is. Will you ask me another question-- What is cookery? 'What is cookery?' An experience or routine of making a sort of delight or gratification. Then they are the same, or rather fall under the same class, and rhetoric has still to be distinguished from cookery. 'What is rhetoric?' asks Polus once more. A part of a not very creditable whole, which may be termed flattery, is the reply. 'But what part?' A shadow of a part of politics. This, as might be expected, is wholly unintelligible, both to Gorgias and Polus; and, in order to explain his meaning to them, Socrates draws a distinction between shadows or appearances and realities; e.g. there is real health of body or soul, and the appearance of them; real arts and sciences, and the simulations of them. Now the soul and body have two arts waiting upon them, first the art of politics, which attends on the soul, having a legislative part and a judicial part; and another art attending on the body, which has no generic name, but may also be described as having two divisions, one of which is medicine and the other gymnastic. Corresponding with these four arts or sciences there are four shams or simulations of them, mere experiences, as they may be termed, because they give no reason
of their own existence. The art of dressing up is the sham or simulation of gymnastic, the art of cookery, of medicine; rhetoric is the simulation of justice, and sophistic of legislation. They may be summed up in an arithmetical formula:--
attiring : gymnastic :: cookery : medicine :: sophistic : legislation.
And,
Cookery : medicine :: rhetoric : the art of justice.
-FJ
Missing Link,
Thanks for identifying yourself as the provider of the link. I had read that article when it was first published, but had forgotten about it when I posted this particular blog article.
I feel sorry every time when I see Muslim girls trying to have their "normal" teenage lives hidden under headscarves.
Yes, sad to me as well.
or better...in Plato's words...
SOCRATES: And now I will endeavour to explain to you more clearly what I mean: The soul and body being two, have two arts corresponding to them: there is the art of politics attending on the soul; and another art attending on the body, of which I know no single name, but which may be described as having two divisions, one of them gymnastic, and the other medicine. And in politics there is a legislative part, which answers to gymnastic, as justice does to medicine; and the two parts run into one another, justice having to do with the same subject as legislation, and medicine with the same subject as gymnastic, but with a difference. Now, seeing that there are these four arts, two attending on the body and two on the soul for their highest good; flattery knowing, or rather guessing their natures, has distributed herself into four shams or simulations of them; she puts on the likeness of some one or other of them, and pretends to be that which she simulates, and having no regard for men's highest interests, is ever making pleasure the bait of the unwary, and deceiving them into the belief that she is of the highest value to them. Cookery simulates the disguise of medicine, and pretends to know what food is the best for the body; and if the physician and the cook had to enter into a competition in which children were the judges, or men who had no more sense than children, as to which of them best understands the goodness or badness of food, the physician would be starved to death. A flattery I deem this to be and of an ignoble sort, Polus, for to you I am now addressing myself, because it aims at pleasure without any thought of the best. An art I do not call it, but only an experience, because it is unable to explain or to give a reason of the nature of its own applications. And I do not call any irrational thing an art; but if you dispute my words, I am prepared to argue in defence of them.
Cookery, then, I maintain to be a flattery which takes the form of medicine; and tiring, in like manner, is a flattery which takes the form of gymnastic, and is knavish, false, ignoble, illiberal, working deceitfully by the help of lines, and colours, and enamels, and garments, and making men affect a spurious beauty to the neglect of the true beauty which is given by gymnastic.
I would rather not be tedious, and therefore I will only say, after the manner of the geometricians (for I think that by this time you will be able to follow)
as attiring : gymnastic :: cookery : medicine;
or rather,
as attiring : gymnastic :: sophistry : legislation;
and
as cookery : medicine :: rhetoric : justice.
-FJ
FJ,
Yes, meatloaf (one word). Hehehe.
I didn't mean to slam "cookery"...
I know. I was being cute. And tonight's meatloaf came out just fine. One of my better efforts, I think. I'm not a great cook by any means, so I'm wary about how the meal will come out. On a few occasions, I've fixed a meat dish which even the cats wouldn't touch!
Cookery : medicine :: rhetoric : the art of justice.
I certainly understand that analogy. So would E. Rice, author of the justice essay.
OK..Its not the modesty pple should be mocking..ALL major religions demand a certain degree of modesty of its women..including Christianity. It's the imposition of their religious codes on secular pple..If they want to play by their rules...thats what Private Schools are for eh?
I agree. Too bad! Maybe the restrictions of Islamic law will encourage some of them to seek other religion.
Happy Belated Birthday, AOW!! Hope it was an awesome one.
If these girls want to play other schools, I say let 'em. And let 'em do it the way the other schools do -- letting anyone watch. They don't like it, then they can stay the big fish in their tiny puddle.
Happy birthday.
Dag.
Woman Honor Thyself,
I do not mock their modesty. And standing up for those rules of modesty is something to be commended. But trying to force the same standard on other schools--particularly when the standard involves religious law (disallowing males to attend a public event) is going too far. In your words, the imposition of their religious codes on secular pple.
I worked in private Christian education for some 18 years, and we had Muslims in our student body. Like the rest of the student body, our Muslim students wore school uniforms and took Bible class. I don't recall any objections.
But the tone is different now.
From "Islamic group urges Catholic school to move to Muslim faith", which appeared on January 16, 2006:
An Islamic campaign group has called for a Catholic primary school to be based on the Muslim faith.
The Campaign for Muslim Schools said 90 per cent of pupils at St Albert's Primary, in the Pollokshields area of Glasgow, are Muslim, yet children are having to take part in Catholic rituals like saying the Lord's Prayer and attending mass.
Osama Saeed, co-ordinator of the alliance of Glasgow's main mosques and Muslim organisations, said he could see no reason why the main faith of the school should not change....
American public schools try to be all inclusive. But if being all inclusive caters to one group, then a line which undermines the basic philosophy of public education has been crossed.
Lone Pony,
Maybe the restrictions of Islamic law will encourage some of them to seek other religion.
I don't think that happens very often. In Islam, the penalty for leaving Islam is severe. In fact, I've never personally known any Muslim who has done so, though two famous names come to mind--Ali Sina and Walid Shoebat, both of whom have information on the web.
Also, over at Pedestrian Infidel, Avenging Apostate puts up interesting posts, with inside information. Here is one of Avenging Apostate's posts, and here is another.
Esther,
Yes, I had a good birthday celebration, with lots of chocolate. Too many goodies, though.
Dag,
Good to see you here. And thank you for the birthday wishes.
AOW..I dint mean to imply that u were mocking the modesty in the Muzlim faith..but some of yer commentators did and I find that across the board...but u r 100% right about coercing others to hold fast to those beliefs..thats jus another way of "them" trying to Izlamize us.
Duck,
Another snippet from the article (I'd recommend you read the entire piece, if you haven't already):
...The Universal School's principal, Farhat Siddiqi, said there was no reason the girls wouldn't be allowed to play teams from public schools or other private schools as long as the prohibition barring men was strictly observed. But she worries parents from other schools might object.
"I don't want to have to impose our religious requirements on anyone else," Siddiqi said.
The Universal School, a coed private school located next to the Mosque Foundation near 93rd Street and Harlem Avenue, is already a member of the Illinois High School Association. So nothing would prevent the girls from playing other public or private schools, said Beth Sauser, assistant executive director of the association responsible for girls basketball.
"They would have to contact whatever schools they want to play and work it out through the athletic directors," Sauser said.
Rich Piatchek, athletic director at Andrew High School in Tinley Park, said he wouldn't rule out his girls teams playing against Universal but acknowledged excluding men from the games might prove difficult.
"That could be an issue," Piatchek said. "I can't imagine that the parents aren't going to want to come and watch their children play. Most schools would probably have the same problem."...
Universal requires girls to wear the hijab on school grounds when they start the 6th grade. Girls and boys learn in separate classrooms and eat lunch during different periods.
Girls don't sit in the bleachers to watch boys' games unless they have a brother playing, and then school authorities encourage a parent to be present. It's understood that dads and brothers won't watch their daughters and sisters play.
"You just describe it when you get home and hope that's sufficient to tell him what happened during the game," Najeeullah said.
The girls say they don't mind the dress code.
"It was made obligatory by God ... to guard our chastity and our modesty," Hamoud said. They automatically pull on scarves and sweatpants or pop the jilbab over their gym clothes whenever they leave the court for water or bathroom breaks.
Abusafa said she has been considering approaching public schools and other private schools for some time, but so far she has hesitated....
So, no games for the Muslim girls' teams if boys are present.
What's interesting here is that the public schools are somehow expected (or desired) to prohibit males from attending--a compromise to be left up to the individual schools, BTW--but no compromise from Universal because the dress code is ordered by Allah.
Now, I can respect any religious group for adhering to a code of modesty. But the group should bemoan it. Somehow, the tone of the article seems to be one of a complaint. Maybe I'm misinterpreting, but I don't think so.
About homeschooling...
Parents turn to homeschooling for a variety of reasons, but I've never heard that they might have to learn to get along with homos as one of those reasons. Of course, Christian homeschool-parents, by and large, regard homosexuality as a sin, that last a topic which is not addressed by the public-school system, nor do homeschoolers expect it to be in a secular setting. And, in fact, many homeschool parents choose public or private schools (or the community colleges) for their children when they reach the junior or senior level in high school--some even earlier, in 9th grade. In other words, homeschoolers often don't fit the stereotype. Certainly some parents choose homeschooling for moral and religious reasons because the public system doesn't reinforce the parents' moral code; others, however, make the choice because the public-school system has already failed to teach their children to read (just to cite one academic reason which I hear quite often).
WHT,
I'm not sure that commenters were ridiculing modesty. But maybe I overlooked an underlying tone.
Kender: seeing women in certain clothes is a sin
If the Universal School holds that belief, okay. But pushing the limits for the other schools is problematic.
When I taught in a private school, we had a girls' b'ball team. Our girls dressed somewhat more modestly than those on some of the opposing teams. No whining about it, as far as I know.
I can see that wearing certain clothes would restrict playing the game. But if one wants to adhere to a conviction, one has to accept limitations which are "God-ordered" and live with those limitations--not complain, "Poor us. The odds aren't fair if we wear our modest clothes. Ban the boys from the bleachers."
LA mentioned this post on his blog. True, no one needs to Islamify basketball.
There are many sports. Why not recommend them some winter sports instead, like ice hockey, skiing, and so on.
Muslim girls can enjoy American sports without violating Islamic principles.
How about American football? Heavily armored, girls do not have to mind the gap between American and Islamic culture.
But this sport is too rough and tough for girls!
Shah,
Good to see you here!
There are many sports. Why not recommend them some winter sports instead, like ice hockey, skiing, and so on.
Muslim girls can enjoy American sports without violating Islamic principles.
Sounds sensible to me. But many schools don't offer those sports as part of their sports program. Basketball and soccer are relatively inexpensive to fund and, therefore, have a lot of appeal to schools.
But I agree that if complying with principles is important, one has to make choices.
If Muslim's want to play Basketball, then they can. If you got a problem with that, you're going to have to deal with it.
Just because you don't get the spotlight, it doesn't mean you should get all jealous. For your information that same school played a high ranking public school and lost by 4 points. They'll be balling all the time, so deal with it!
Ya, i agree, it's a free country right?
So don't hate on Muslims!
It's none of your business if they want to ball! Go find something beneficial to do!
Looks as if this nearly-one-year-old posting touched a nerve, and two Anonymouses decided to team up and post a couple of comments.
Anonymous,
If Muslim's want to play Basketball, then they can.
Absolutely. But what they can't do is change the rules for the rest of us.
Anonymous,
So don't hate on Muslims!
I don't. And Muslims need not "hate on" me.
BTW,
Do you not know the connotation of "balling," or are you trying to be cute? If you are ESL and don't know about that connotation, you might want to check with your teacher.
Hey, Anonymous. Are you the same person? I just checked my site meter. Hehehehe.
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