Shari'a Law Comes To The UK?
According to a November 29, 2006 article in the London Telegraph, Shari'a law, based on the Koran and the Hadith, is becoming an alterate source of justice in some parts of Britain. According to a recent show on BBC 4 Radio, an unofficial Somali "court" recently rendered a decision in a stabbing case in southeast London. According to the article, Mr Yusuf [a youth worker from Somalia] told the programme he felt more bound by the traditional law of his birth than by the laws of his adopted country. "Us Somalis, wherever we are in the world, we have our own law," he said. "It's not sharia, it's not religious — it's just a cultural thing."In the UK, shari'a law is not binding. Yet.
Meanwhile, some in the UK see the use of shari'a law as a good measure:
Some lawyers welcomed the advance of what has become known as "legal pluralism"."Legal pluralism" - multiculturalism as applied to the legal system?
The article also states the following:
Dr Prakash Shah, a senior lecturer in law at Queen Mary University of London, said such tribunals "could be more effective than the formal legal system"....Read the entire article in the Telegraph HERE.
[Hat-tip to Nanc for providing me the link to the above story]
posted by Always On Watch @ 11/29/2006 07:38:00 AM
36 comments
36 Comments:
Whats going on in Britain?? are those people nuts or what? Have they given up? Surrendered? Seems like it!!
CRAPPE!
tmw
I keep saying it: France and Spain are already muslim countries. England is all but there now. The Muslims are winning all over the world. They seriously want to conquer the world and Europe is all but lost. Once Europe is gone, they will focus more of their energies on the US (even more than they already are).
From my understanding, Sharia law wouldn't apply to non-Muslims.
However, if it ever did apply to me, that is when I become militant.
Ogre is right...nothing to add...moving right along..they shall sow what they reap and so shall we!
But Steve... This opens up a HUGE can of worms, IMO.
What if you were to 'wrong' a Muslim in a civil fashion, and the British courts ordered told you to go to the arbitrary Sharia courts and abide by their decision? It won't be long before that happens.
And what of women, who have less rights than an animal under Sharia law? How will they ever be able to get to a regular court if they wish?
This is the very definition of the "slippery slope."
So a Muslim, in a Muslim neighborhood, gets arrested for some minor shoplifting offense, maybe some kid steals a candy bar, and they send him to Sharia court. Does this mean the Brits will simply stand by and endorse his being sentenced to hand amputation? Things are sure bound to get interesting over there.
So we should allow each sub-culture within a country to practice their own law? That is a recipe for disaster and you know it!
Odd that Ducky calls Sharia law cultural and not religious, as it is based on and steeped in Islamic creed.
Odder still, that Ducky fails to mention that even things that should have been settled in a criminal court have been allowed to be adjudicated in a Sharia court. From the article:
Mr Yusuf said a group of Somali youths were arrested on suspicion of stabbing another Somali teenager. The victim's family told the police it would be settled out of court and the suspects were released on bail.
Or perhaps this:
Faizul Aqtab Siddiqi, a barrister and principal of Hijaz College Islamic University, near Nuneaton, Warwicks, said this type of court had advantages for Muslims. "It operates on a low budget, it operates on very small timescales and the process and the laws of evidence are far more lenient and it's less awesome an environment than the English courts," he said.
Mr Siddiqi predicted that there would be a formal network of Muslim courts within a decade.
"Next thing you know storm will be telling us that this sort of cultural justic isn't found in immigrant Chinese communities and maybe she didn't see The Godfather?"
Ducky, the Godfather is a movie (fiction), and "cultural justice" isn't legal anyway, nor should it be.
The only thing "Sharia" brings out is whack job Muslims. When it comes to that, a reasoned perspective is an alarmed one.
So we're to take the "Sicilian" mafioso as just a cultural thing, and that somehow makes Sharia law OK?
Geez, Ducky... And what exactly does that have to do with the good behavior of Muslim communities in America?
What we must ask is when Muslims will be willing to evolve. Wahhibism is a willful rejection of civil rights for women and any non-Muslims, and Sharia is rooted in it. Immigrant groups are so catered to in recent history that they have lost all desire to assimilate.
This sort of push for special, individual laws should be discouraged, not submitted to.
if he could only hear himself quacking...
Ducky, wahhibism is a sect of Islam that primarily uses Sharia law.
I said nothing about veils, and I feel fine. Try to stay on track, rather than resort to ad hominem.
True, the plaintiff did not press charges, but it could be argued that a violent assault which was not a simple round of fisticuffs, but rather a stabbing should be handled by the rightful courts. It was, after all. ASSAULT WITH A DEADLY WEAPON.
Were I to declare myself Lunah (the female moon god), and were I to declare that my religion, Lunatic, to be the perfection of all religion for man for all time. Further, were I to declare my religion to be an Abrahamic religion, would I get it accepted, would I find that British law would recognize me? NO! Certainly not! I would be ridiculed. So why are we recognizing this 1400 year-old, lunar cult?
Recognizing Islam is equally ridiculous! Ban their Shari'ah laws, ban their Shari'ah courts!
By the way, Steve: You need to get militant BEFORE Shari'ah law starts being applied to you, the infidel; otherwise, it will be too late!
In Canada, the loudest protest against using sharia law came from Muslim women.
I'm willing to bet that most Islamic women in Britain will also fight against its implementation.
To me, even allowing sharia law to settle civil disputes between Muslims is the first step to their ultimate goal which is to impose sharia law on all.
Ducky, perhaps Sharia law predates Wahhabism, but they use it today.
You have ignored the question at hand: Should we allow every sub-culture within a country to have a separate legal system?
Frankly, I could care less if the immigrant communities like British law. The bottom line is that they have chosen to immigrate to Britain. If they didn't expect that they should have to follow British law, then they should never have left a country which functions under Sharia law.
Ducky
When and where do I go to stone Marxists? Since you are in favor of Shariah you should live under it. Where is Elmer with my bag of rocks?
Sharia is a term not used for merely propaganda. It is used by Muslims, as well.
As for which mazhab these Somalian Muslims follow... I couldn't say for certain, as the article in question doesn't say. If I had to hazard a guess, though, I would say they are likely Sunni Muslims, which means they probably fall into one of these four categories:
Hanafi (founded by Abu Hanifa)
Maliki (founded by Malik ibn Anas)
Shafi'i (founded by Muhammad ibn Idris ash-Shafi`i)
Hanbali (founded by Ahmad bin Hanbal)
As for drama queens, I haven't seen a one. Care to name any?
ODL - brooke? he's still upset that we haven't invited him to join the drama queen club - he cannot get past it, hard as he tries - think i'll call him sarah "plucky" heartburn!
I'm back, where do I audition? Can I send my daughter? She does a really great Fay Wray!
tmw
Ducky lets see. Islam removes the offending organ. Thus an accolyte of class genocide would be subject to a labotomy under Sharia.
My fear is what happens there will eventually happen here. I just found out tonight Ellison gets to swear in on a koran.
I am sad for the U.K. and Europe and cannot believe something like this is happening in my lifetime.
Things do seem to keep speeding up also. We look like we are losing in Iraq and yet the jihadists are gaining all over the globe not only through violence but through intimidation. I hope we do not lose our will.
Beaker- The lobotomy would be without anesthesia, sterile conditions, and would not take place in a hospital with doctors, nurses, recovery room or surgical instruments. They'd use rocks and there would be no blood transfusions! It would be messy and the patient usually dies!
Good morning, G*D bless and Maranatha!
tmw
I'm sure we can expect the Libs to begin the campaign for the same thing here in the USA. "After all, only North Korea, South Africa, and the United States don't have parallel Shari'a Courts. How backward."
ducky...you are very adept at taking simple statements to the extreme.
There is a big difference between scarves that cover one's head and veils that completely cover one's face.
Second of all, it's my understanding that sharia is only been used to settle civil disputes...not criminal. Therefore no one will get their hands cut off or any other body parts.
You cannot separate sharia from Islam, sharia law is based on Islamic principles...religious not cultural.
In Canada, as I already stated, Islamic women were the loudest critics of using sharia to settle even civil disputes as women do not have the same rights as men. Mohammed/Allah has stated in the Koran that women are the property of their husbands or fathers.
This is religious...not cultural.
Female circumcision is cultural...that point I will give you, it is mostly practiced in a few north African countries but can be found throughout Islamic countries.
This is a huge mistake. Huge. Appeasement of these monsters will only embolden them.
I'll bet this is the part where Ducky waits a few days and then comes back to snipe the thread. LOL!
Crusader,
You cannot separate sharia from Islam, sharia law is based on Islamic principles...
That's the problem--in a nutshell. All the protests to the contrary don't change the connection between Islam and shari'a law.
Cube,
This is a huge mistake. Huge. Appeasement of these monsters will only embolden them.
Yes, it is appeasement. Furthermore, it gives some Muslims the idea that Allah's will is being fulfilled as the decadent West concedes.
As Anonymous said, My fear is what happens there will eventually happen here.
Is that being overly dramatic? I don't think so.
If every divergent group gets to set up its own legal system, would there be any end to legal pluralism? How many separate groups would have their own systems? And when those systems come into conflict, which system would be the final authority?
Constant accommodation leads to lack of unity, IMO--culturally, socially, legally, etc.
In some ways, the questions I posed above were answered in favor of our Constitution over the weak Articles of Confederation. I see some parallels there.
At 11/29/2006 8:15 PM, Mr. Ducky said...
This post has been removed by the author.
Interesting that the comment was deleted. Before I knew of the deletion, I had starred the comment to discuss. I suppose that, in the interest of fair play, I won't now put the comment up for discussion. **sigh**
Mark,
Were I to declare myself Lunah (the female moon god), and were I to declare that my religion, Lunatic, to be the perfection of all religion for man for all time. Further, were I to declare my religion to be an Abrahamic religion, would I get it accepted, would I find that British law would recognize me? NO! Certainly not!...So why are we recognizing this 1400 year-old, lunar cult?
Because cuddling up with Islam is the new fashion. Maybe it's a fascination with "all things Araby," as Patai said decades ago. Certainly, dating back to the Romantic Period the West has been fascinated with "Araby," the exotic.
The West wants Islam to be something it isn't and will never be--compatible with Western civilization.
Thank you for your excellent comment! You've shown in a vivid way the insanity of allowing shari'a law a toehold in the West.
Storm,
Do not chastise Duncy too harshly he is only blindly following the lead of his masters.
You're right there. Disciples follow their master.
Nanc,
sarah "plucky" heartburn
Brooke,
I finally got around to clicking on that link to the interview. Aha! The fellow from the Islamic Thinkers Society. Quite something, huh?
Storm,
Ask your grandparents if they ever thought you would have to press 1 for English.
I don't have to go back even that far. And every time I hear "press XXX for espanol," I launch--particularly from a tax-funded voice menu!
Little incentive is provided to encourage immigrants to learn English. Meanwhile, the rest of the population has to know some Spanish just to order breakfast at Mickey D's.
KuhnKat,
Islam = both religion and culture. In Islam, all aspects of life are proscribed and prescribed.
Yet Duck insists that Christians are marching in lockstep. Go to any Islamic country, and you'll really see lockstep!
Making a separate system of law for them only cements this idea that the west is inferior and can be taunted, ignored, and brutalised!!!
Exactly!
The meaning of the word "immigration" has been perverted. Immigrants are supposed to accede to the legal system in their new countries. But Muslims don't. Therein lies the problem. We have a 5th column undermining the very fabric of Western civilization, and the left is right in there rooting for same.
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