Thursday, July 20, 2006

Saudis Blame Israel

(All emphases by Always On Watch)

From this source, on July 19, 2006:
"Amid a campaign for Arabs' hearts and minds over the fighting in Lebanon and Israel, the government of Saudi Arabia has made it clear that it holds Israel responsible for the conflict.

"Earlier Saudi criticism of Hizballah's 'adventurism' -- a position viewed by U.S. officials as highly significant -- appears to have given way to the customary Arab stance of blaming Israel and accusing the international community of abandoning the Arabs.

"At a weekly meeting chaired by King Abdullah in Jeddah, the kingdom's cabinet declared that the war was an extension of Israel's 'occupation policies and hegemony in the region.'...

"The apparent shift in the Saudi stance followed criticism of the position taken earlier by the kingdom....

"Many Arabs view Nasrallah as a hero for standing up to Israel, and portraits of the black-turbaned leader of 'the resistance' feature prominently in protests across the Middle East.

"Reports from Bahrain said Sunnis and Shi'ites marched together in support of Hizballah. In protests there, the Palestinian territories and elsewhere, Arabs chanted slogans urging Nasrallah to bomb Tel Aviv...."
At the end of the article appears another reminder of Muslim unity (Remember what Pim's Ghost wrote about the Arab sense of honor?):
"The Egyptian newspaper also noted that on the eve of an Arab League foreign ministers' meeting in Cairo at the weekend, Lebanese Foreign Minister Fawzi Saloukh had stated: 'The Arab world cannot deny the heroics of Hizballah and we expect our Arab brethren to take our side.'"
The following also bears remembering:
"Hizballah holds 14 seats in Lebanon's 128-member parliament."

92 Comments:

At 7/20/2006 10:41 AM, Blogger cube said...

I was surprised by the first statement by the Saudis, but not by the second.

 
At 7/20/2006 10:47 AM, Blogger WomanHonorThyself said...

o yay have they started the flag burning yet?..sheesh!!!!.pulls out mah hair!

 
At 7/20/2006 10:53 AM, Blogger Brooke said...

Abdullah seems to be regressing even further back into the dark ages; first, he bans pictures of women from media, and now open Jooow hating.

I'm sure that Ducky will be lock-step with the Saudis.

 
At 7/20/2006 10:56 AM, Blogger Mr. Beamish the Instablepundit said...

Words words words.

C'mon Saudis. We wanna see if the Merkava 4 is a better tank than the M1A2 Abrams.

Muhahahaha.

 
At 7/20/2006 11:07 AM, Blogger Mr. Ducky said...

Saudis aren't important in this one.

Keep an eye on Egypt, if Mubarek caves to the Muslim Brotherhood it's significant. The rest of this is noise.

 
At 7/20/2006 11:10 AM, Blogger Mr. Ducky said...

Brooke, you might also check out the Iraqi response. Complete support for Hezbollah from the Iraqi government.

Myself, I think we've paid far to high a price to install a pro-Iranian government but keep supporting Chucklenuts and his stooges, they're making progress.

 
At 7/20/2006 11:38 AM, Blogger Jason_Pappas said...

Muslim solidarity is a defining characteristic of the religion. They’ll fight each other and we can play one against the other to some extent but they’ll always join forces against non-Muslims in the end. The Saudi government worries about Iran but the Saudi people are on Iran’s side in this battle.

Expect traditional Saudi duplicity as they demand that we provide an umbrella of protect against Iran and as she publicly does everything to hurt our efforts to do so. Expect the same from the other Arab governments. They are two-faced liars on principle … taqiyya, anyone?

 
At 7/20/2006 11:48 AM, Blogger Brooke said...

Ducky, I searched for any response by Iraq supporting Hezbollah, and couldn't find a single one. Would you mind linking your source?

Iraq, I would imagine, won't say anything either way. They can't afford to piss of terrorists, while the lefties screech about withdrawing troops.

 
At 7/20/2006 11:57 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Brooke;

MR Sucky Ducky is only exagerating on this one. Some wannabe associated with the Iraqi gubmint has come out and supported Hezbullah. I just wonder how many officials had to be interviewed to find the MORON.

Remember, in Democracies any group of people can get at least a dog catcher appointed. We have Pat Buchanan, David Duke, and Al Kerry. How embarassing is that???

 
At 7/20/2006 12:08 PM, Blogger Jason_Pappas said...

We have Pat Buchanan, David Duke, and Al Kerry. How embarassing is that???

I think it's Al Gore and John Kerry but I can't tell them apart, either.

 
At 7/20/2006 12:11 PM, Blogger Brooke said...

Oh, I'm sure, Anon.

How many times do we turn on our local news, only to find that they've interviewed the *ahem* very bottom of the barrel.

I find it necessary to occasionally call Ducky out on his facts, much like the time he claimed that the US only gives Israel foreign aid.

 
At 7/20/2006 12:36 PM, Blogger G_in_AL said...

I'm sorry to see this. I really thought there was a change going on over there. I really thought that younger generations of Arabs were not buying into the crap and that there was a potential pardigm shift taking place.

Looks like I was wrong.

 
At 7/20/2006 12:38 PM, Blogger nanc said...

my aching back! and i say it's no longer gw's fault, therefore, i blame it on the jew!

 
At 7/20/2006 1:28 PM, Blogger Mr. Ducky said...

Actually Brooke, the iraqi statement may be significantly different. They are calling for an Israeli withdrawal and a cease fire. Now, that isn't equivalent to supporting Hezbollah.

 
At 7/20/2006 1:30 PM, Blogger Mr. Ducky said...

Brooke, the United States gives very little foreign aid. Nearly all of it goes to three nations Israel, Egypt and Colombia. If you think I'm wrong then please state the nations you feel receive foreign aid from the US on a similar magnitude.

 
At 7/20/2006 2:03 PM, Blogger nanc said...

i wonder why castro hasn't come out and said anything about what is going on in the middle east? hmmmm...could the rumors be true? if he has said anything in the last ten days i must have missed it.

 
At 7/20/2006 2:47 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

MR Sucky Ducky:

Please define Foreign Aid.

The US gives huge amounts to NGO's and other groups that are not classified as Foreign Aid, BUT, the cash goes to foreign groups and gubmints.

Just think about the money wasted on the UN!!!

 
At 7/20/2006 2:48 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

MR Sucky Ducky:

We don't even need to get into tax advantaged groups sending money to the ME.

 
At 7/20/2006 2:57 PM, Blogger Mr. Ducky said...

anonymous, foreign aid means government foreign aid, i.e. primarily Israeli welfare checks.

As far as per capita contributions to NGO's we are far down the list. Don't start that "we are the most generous nation" nonsense.

 
At 7/20/2006 3:00 PM, Blogger Jason_Pappas said...

We give in blood. We fight the free world's wars. Our military budget is what kept the world free until the fall of the Berlin Wall and now we are fighting the Islamo-fascists.

We are far too generous.

 
At 7/20/2006 3:18 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Ahhh, now I get it.

If MR Sucky Duck says it is for Israel then it is Foreign Aid. If MR Sucky Ducky says it ISN'T for Israel then it ISN'T Foreign Aid.

I guess the Billions of Dollars that are voluntarily contributed by US citizens to foreigners isn't foreign aid and doesn't count!! I guess all the Billions stolen from those same citizens and given by the gubmint to foreigners isn't foreign aid either!!!

MR Sucky Ducky also pissed:

"As far as per capita contributions to NGO's we are far down the list. Don't start that "we are the most generous nation" nonsense."

Whatsa mattter lil' Sucky Ducky, having a hard time getting a definition that fits your illusions??

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Keep trying MORON!!!!!

PS: Show us you list anyway!!!

 
At 7/20/2006 3:28 PM, Blogger Brooke said...

Ducky, I already broke down the year 2004 foreign aid appropriations at Mr. Beamish's site, and I do not feel like looking up the info again just because you obviously didn't read it the first time.

Just because you didn't believe it doesn't make it any less true.

Again, Ducky, a Google search yields no such claim by the Iraqi government. Site your source.

 
At 7/20/2006 3:40 PM, Blogger MissingLink said...

DId we expect anything less from the Saudis?
They are Muzzies and their only obligation is to Allah (top Muzzie).

 
At 7/20/2006 4:04 PM, Blogger American Crusader said...

It was only a question of time before "moderate" Islamic government started to blame Israel. Personally I'm surprised that it has taken this long. Hezbollah, both Shi'ite and Iranian controlled, is seen as a threat among the Arab states in the region. Still these states had to at least make a show of unity.

 
At 7/20/2006 4:06 PM, Blogger Always On Watch said...

TO ALL COMMENTERS:
A little while ago, I just got back from swimming laps. I see that commenters have been busy here, so I guess that I have some catching up to do. :)

 
At 7/20/2006 4:14 PM, Blogger Raven said...

Well the Muslims have to stick together. Do we expect anything less? It does prove that not much has changed over there and THAT sad. A religion that rules the people to this point isn't a religion anymore. It's a cult.

 
At 7/20/2006 4:51 PM, Blogger Mad Zionist said...

Gingrich is right: It's WWIII and we'd better start treating it as such. The vermin need to be vaporized.

 
At 7/20/2006 4:53 PM, Blogger Always On Watch said...

G,
I think that I recently expressed some skepticism about the reliability of the Saudis at your blog.

I expected the Saudis to change their position, but not this soon.

 
At 7/20/2006 4:56 PM, Blogger Mr. Ducky said...

anonymous, I have to revise my statement. Do to Chucklenuts most excellent iraqi adventure and other foreign wars... Afghanistan, Iraq and Pakistan have slipped onto the list ahead of the Israeli welfare queens.

You should contact your Senator and correct the injustice.

 
At 7/20/2006 4:59 PM, Blogger Always On Watch said...

Missing Link,
DId we expect anything less from the Saudis?
They are Muzzies and their only obligation is to Allah (top Muzzie).


There seems no end to false hope, huh? But I have to admit, I was skeptical all along.

The media trumpeted Saudi's first position (even Fred Barnes), but so far, I haven't heard a thing about the change which CNS cites.

Muslims pledge their loyalty to that nebulous concept of the nation of Islam. And that fact makes them particularly dangerous as immigrants in Western nations.

 
At 7/20/2006 4:59 PM, Blogger Mr. Ducky said...

American Crusader, I think you're wrong on that count. Militant islam is a far bigger danger to moderate muslim governments than it is to the west and they have suffered most at its hands.

Israel does manage to play into the hands of extremists with idiotic attacks like the latest. We will begin to see that the stupidity of the Iraqi invasion has in fact resulted in a big win for Iran.

Never mind Hezbollah, get rid of Chucklenuts. He's a much bigger danger.

 
At 7/20/2006 5:07 PM, Blogger Always On Watch said...

Duck,
Militant islam is a far bigger danger to moderate muslim governments than it is to the west....

How about a little Arab proverb? This proverb goes WAAAAY back:

"It's me and my brother against my cousin. And when we finish him off, it's me and my brother against each other."

My Arab neighbor taught me that little saying well before 9/11. Oh, and he was an educated and Westernized fellow, too, but he used that proverb to explain to me how an Arab thinks.

The origins of Hezbollah well predate the current administration.

Mad Zionist,
It's WWIII...

Determining the starting point and the status of a world war is best determined by hindsight. Think WWII here.

But I happen to agree with Gingrich. Iran is pulling Hezbollah's strings--a proxy war.

Raven,
Well the Muslims have to stick together.

See the proverb which I posted in this same comment.

 
At 7/20/2006 5:12 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

MR Sucky Ducky:

Moderate Muslim Governments????

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

 
At 7/20/2006 5:30 PM, Blogger Always On Watch said...

Jason,
Muslim solidarity is a defining characteristic of the religion. They’ll fight each other and we can play one against the other to some extent but they’ll always join forces against non-Muslims in the end.

Christianity, as you know, is quite divided--all those denominations, for example.

Muslim solidarity is one of Islam's strengths. The West needs to get a clue about that!

 
At 7/20/2006 5:31 PM, Blogger Brooke said...

Ducky, once again, the "Israeli welfare state" is one of your fallacies. I broke this down the US Aid appropriations per country at Mr. Beamish's site; you should try going back and reading it.

As for Israel "playing into the hands of the extremists": What a load of crap! Israel gave back quite a bit of land, and what did it get them? Continued attacks, treaty violations and the like. What does sitting back and doing nothing get you? 9-11.

Throughout history we are given examples of nations being forced by the increasing aggressiveness of Muslims to beat them back and down. General "Blackjack" Pershing comes immediately to mind, as far as American history goes.

 
At 7/20/2006 5:41 PM, Blogger Mr. Beamish the Instablepundit said...

Ducky,

As far as per capita contributions to NGO's we are far down the list. Don't start that "we are the most generous nation" nonsense.

If you only count American government spending as a percentage of GDP, yes. But if you're not an idiot leftist, you count money pitched in by private sector donations as well. I know for a fact that churches in the St. Louis, Missouri area raised more money for Indonesian tsunami victims in 2004 than most of Europe combined.

 
At 7/20/2006 7:50 PM, Blogger Mummia Schlemiel Jabbar said...

Do Note we have a fake Communist Ducky using racist anti black imagery on Jews. I thought you Marxist were all for welfare. Just another left wing racist phony.

Whats with all these nuts comments. Big Bubba always said you were the Pond Queen. Bubba may have been right all along.

 
At 7/20/2006 7:50 PM, Blogger Always On Watch said...

Nanc,
i wonder why castro hasn't come out and said anything about what is going on in the middle east?

Fidel is indeed strangely silent. Any public appearances from him? In how long?

 
At 7/20/2006 7:51 PM, Blogger Always On Watch said...

Mr. Beamish,
count money pitched in by private sector donations as well

Often overlooked!

 
At 7/20/2006 7:53 PM, Blogger Always On Watch said...

Mummia,
Big Bubba is a wise man.

 
At 7/20/2006 8:03 PM, Blogger Always On Watch said...

Duck,
Keep an eye on Egypt, if Mubarek caves to the Muslim Brotherhood it's significant.

Oh, joy. Something we agree upon.

 
At 7/20/2006 8:04 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Maybe Castro is still in shock over making Forbes list?!?!?!

I read that Iran and Castro are having a little confab though!!

 
At 7/20/2006 8:09 PM, Blogger Always On Watch said...

Anonymous,
I read that Iran and Castro are having a little confab

I read that as well. What a team! Ahmadinejad, Castro, and Chavez.

 
At 7/20/2006 9:30 PM, Blogger nanc said...

sounds like weekend at bernie's with castro playing the role of bernie...

 
At 7/21/2006 12:21 AM, Blogger Pim's Ghost said...

Jason, you hit the nail on the head. They may fight amongst themselves, but they will ALWAYS stand by each other against any infidels. Now will someone hit the nail on Ducky's head? Might knock some sense into him. Especially since he said this:
"Israel does manage to play into the hands of extremists with idiotic attacks like the latest."

Self-defense is idiotic, eh? I guess you won't last much longer then, Duck.

AOW--oh yeah, the ummah needs a sense of humor! And yes, private sector donations are usually overlooked, especially by governments in the world who require everything given through extremely high taxes and little done on the personal level. Hmm, maybe Socialists in Europe and the US butt-kissers who want to emulate them?

Damn, I hate Castro. Why is that bugger still alive?

 
At 7/21/2006 6:48 AM, Blogger Always On Watch said...

Pim's Ghost,
I hate Castro. Why is that bugger still alive?

Longevity runs in the family. But Castro hasn't seemed well in quite some time. There has been some speculation that he has Parkinson's.

 
At 7/21/2006 7:40 AM, Blogger nanc said...

or death.

 
At 7/21/2006 7:45 AM, Blogger Always On Watch said...

Nanc,
That's possible. But I hate to get my hopes up, only to have them dashed.

 
At 7/21/2006 10:15 AM, Blogger Pim's Ghost said...

I think if anyone was stupid enough to wear one of those Che the Photogenic Murderer shirts in some of the areas I frequent in Florida, they'd get the crap beaten out of them. And you do have to be pretty stupid to be on that "Che bandwagon". But I swear, even in the old folk communities, I think the 80-year-olds would take anyone wearing anything "Che". They're still very touchy on the issue and, well, they have canes. I think they could take a young fool.

Good thing Castro and even Cindy Sheehan haven't ever had a romantic and lovely photo taken of them or the shirts would be pouring out. Of course, Sheehan can break cameras I'm sure....

 
At 7/21/2006 10:21 AM, Blogger Jason_Pappas said...

I find it interesting that some leftists have started to face the fact that in Islamic nations nations-building and democracy only lead to repressive governments. Ducky, for example, is showing some signs of this awareness (undoubtedly parroting the leftist party line.) I was skeptical of such an endeavor from the start but when I used to complain that the problem was Islamic culture, leftists could only blame Bush.

Imagine what would have happened if Bush took out Saddam and allowed (or put in) another dictator. The left would have went berserk (which it did anyway); they would have screamed that we always support dictators; and that is the reason backwards impoverished nations suffer under the yoke of tyranny. They would have yelled that we aren’t improving the matter; and the Iraqi people want and deserve freedom.

Of course, now they are crying that democracy only allows the Shiites to create an oppressive Sharia-led state and the potential slaughter to the Sunnis. Now they look back to Saddam, and dictators like him, with fondness (their hero in Syrianna.) Poor Bush: damned if he does, damned if he doesn’t. Perhaps it is time to throw away the PC multi-culturalism and see that Islam is the problem. It’s too bad leftist BDS blinded them to the real problem, Islam, not Bush.

 
At 7/21/2006 10:53 AM, Blogger G_in_AL said...

Now it's in the news that we've given Israel "1 week"... call me crazy, but isnt that just a big hypocritical concidering our Administration's slippery stance on a timeline for the war in Iraq?

 
At 7/21/2006 11:26 AM, Anonymous Love said...

So what else is new?

 
At 7/21/2006 1:01 PM, Blogger Mr. Beamish the Instablepundit said...

AOW,

We can all get a kick out of Ducky's incoherent "welfare checks to Israel" rants. I'm sure by some time next week we'll be back to the Chinese "welfare checks to America" rants.

 
At 7/21/2006 2:42 PM, Blogger nanc said...

beware of brownbats today.

 
At 7/21/2006 3:02 PM, Blogger The Merry Widow said...

Nanc- From your lips to G*D's ear! The stain on the panties of society won't go away unless he's taken away! What does he do? Bathe in crappe? Disgusting pervert!

tmw

 
At 7/21/2006 4:04 PM, Blogger Mr. Ducky said...

Brooke, it's registration only so you'll have to trust me. Here are excerpts from the NYT story.
Unfortunately the BBC replaced theirs with coverage of the bombing but I don't imagine you consider that commie organ reliable either.

Chimpy's man in Iraq has a mind of his own.
--------------------------------

Prime Minister Nuri Kamal al-Maliki of Iraq on Wednesday forcefully denounced the Israeli attacks on Lebanon, marking a sharp break with President Bush’s position and highlighting the growing power of a Shiite Muslim identity across the Middle East.

“The Israeli attacks and airstrikes are completely destroying Lebanon’s infrastructure,” Mr. Maliki said at an afternoon news conference inside the fortified Green Zone, which houses the American Embassy and the seat of the Iraqi government. “I condemn these aggressions and call on the Arab League foreign ministers’ meeting in Cairo to take quick action to stop these aggressions. We call on the world to take quick stands to stop the Israeli aggression.”

The American Embassy did not provide an immediate response.

The comments by Mr. Maliki, a Shiite Arab whose party has close ties to Iran, were noticeably stronger than those made by Sunni Arab governments in recent days. Those governments have refused to take an unequivocal stand on Lebanon, reflecting their concern about the growing influence of Iran, which has a Shiite majority and has been accused by Israel of providing weapons to Hezbollah, the Lebanese Shiite militant group.

[snip]

[Maliki's] stance is noteworthy because it is a significant split with American policy toward Israel. It has been the Americans’ hope that Iraq would become President Bush’s staunchest ally among Arab nations. The Americans arranged a series of elections that ended up putting Shiite parties in power, and the White House helped boost Mr. Maliki by pushing last spring for the ouster of the prime minister at the time, Ibrahim al-Jaafari. Mr. Maliki relies on the presence of 134,000 American troops in Iraq to stave off the insurgency led by Sunni Arabs, who ruled over the majority Shiite Arabs for decades.

The resentment of the Iraqi government toward Israel calls into question one of the rationales among some conservatives for the American invasion of Iraq — that an American-backed democratic state here would inevitably become an ally of Israel and, by doing so, catalyze a change of attitude across the rest of the Arab world.

[snip]

A growing number of Iraqi officials have stepped forward in recent days to condemn Israel. On Sunday, in a rare show of unity, the 275-member Parliament issued a statement calling the Israeli strikes an act of “criminal aggression.” The militant Shiite cleric Moktada al-Sadr, whose followers play a crucial role in the government, said last Friday that Iraqis would not “sit by with folded hands” while the violence in Lebanon raged. Mr. Sadr commands a powerful militia, the Mahdi Army.

So far, the most prominent Shiite cleric, Grand Ayatollah Ali al-Sistani, has remained silent. But another Shiite cleric, Ayatollah Ahmad al-Husseini al-Baghdadi, of Najaf, in an Internet posting on Wednesday accused the “international arrogant forces, especially America” of igniting conflict between Shiite and Sunni Arabs in Iraq and provoking Israel to attack the Palestinian territories and Lebanon. The ayatollah has relatives in Lebanon.

[snip]

The Israeli assault is bringing to the fore one of the unintended consequences of the American war here — the potential for what many analysts call a Shiite crescent stretching from Iran to Iraq to Lebanon. It is a phenomenon that could rewrite the political map of the Middle East, with Sunni Arab countries drawing together to oppose Shiite dominance. The lukewarm responses from Sunni countries during the Lebanon conflict, in contrast to the statements from Mr. Maliki and other Shiite leaders, are the latest manifestation of the divide.

Top Shiite politicians in Iraq have myriad connections to Iran. Many officials in Mr. Maliki’s political group, the Islamic Dawa Party, fled into exile there to escape the brutal persecution of Saddam Hussein. Mr. Maliki also has other ties to pro-Hezbollah leaders in the region. He spent most of his 23 years in exile in Syria, where he ran the Damascus branch of the Dawa party. Syria supports Hezbollah and Hamas, the militant group that now leads the Palestinian government.

 
At 7/21/2006 4:22 PM, Blogger Always On Watch said...

Duck,
I saw something similar at another web site today, but I can't remember where. And I can't say that I'm surprised if the above information turns out to be true.

"Bringing democracy" to Muslims in the Middle East was and is fraught with risk because of the tenets of fundamentalist Islam. Of course, were "bringing democracy" to be a success in the sense of providing personal freedom, the tone of the Middle East might be completely changed, and many forces in the Middle East are dead set against what some of the call "Westoxification." As you know, some maintain that Islam and democracy are incompatible insofar as the Western connotation of democracy is concerned.

 
At 7/21/2006 4:27 PM, Blogger Always On Watch said...

Jason,
Great comment!

But the left will never accept that Islam is the problem.

 
At 7/21/2006 4:29 PM, Blogger Always On Watch said...

G,
Now it's in the news that we've given Israel "1 week".

I've been out of touch with the news broadcasts most of today. Who said that???

 
At 7/21/2006 4:29 PM, Blogger Always On Watch said...

Pim's Ghost,
Maybe Che is despised in Florida, but Che shirts are visible in D.C. and northward.

 
At 7/21/2006 4:30 PM, Blogger Brooke said...

Ducky: Fair enough!

The beautiful thing about Iraq being its own democracy is that they are now free to make that decision for itself.

 
At 7/21/2006 4:30 PM, Blogger Brooke said...

Themselves. Sorry!

 
At 7/21/2006 4:33 PM, Blogger Always On Watch said...

Brooke,
Ducky: Fair enough!

Thank you for being gracious. :)

 
At 7/21/2006 4:35 PM, Blogger Mr. Ducky said...

So what's the deal, AOW. How does this "war" progress? Everything will be fine if we kill enough muslims?

So let's imagine that we accept tha Islam is the problem. Is subjugation going to make it less of a problem?

Your idea of bringing democracy has resulted in complete elimination of the democratic movement in Iran, a burgeoning muslim state in Iraq and the destruction of Lebann, the only state in the Middle East with a history of multi-cultural democracy.

Now let me suggest that Israel's ham handed assault isn't going to do anything but harden opposition and bring Hezbollah back stronger and more militant.

That point is not what one thinks of islam (and as a, probably, evangelical you aren't capable of objectivity on the issue) but rather, how much more of President Blutarski's screwups are you going to tolerate before we look for a better course.

 
At 7/21/2006 4:54 PM, Blogger Always On Watch said...

Duck,
Your idea of bringing democracy has resulted in complete elimination of the democratic movement in Iran, a burgeoning muslim state in Iraq and the destruction of Lebann, the only state in the Middle East with a history of multi-cultural democracy.

I'm flattered that you think that I have any influence on America's foreign policy. ;)

Seriously, now...As a matter of fact, I've never favored "nation building"--unless after a decisive and definitive military defeat. Even then, the matter is iffy, though what happened after WWII might have been quite successful, especially in Japan.

That point is not what one thinks of islam...

I disagree. Islam is of supreme importance as the basis of most nations in the Middle East.

And what's a better course (as you termed it)? Trust Islamic nations not to continue to try to subjugate the West? Trust Islamic nations to stop funneling money (i.e., oil dollars) to terrorist organizations?

What we're talking about here is a thorny issue. I don't see any quick solutions to the problems.

Frankly, it doesn't matter to me if somebody worships in a mosque, so long as that somebody doesn't try to force me to do the same.

Now let me suggest that Israel's ham handed assault isn't going to do anything but harden opposition and bring Hezbollah back stronger and more militant.

Yes, that is very likely, especially if diplomacy is employed quite quickly; Hezbollah will see that as weakness. And not just Hezbollah will get stronger, but throughout the Muslim world Islamism will continue to surge. But allowing Hezbollah to continue to threaten the sovereignty of Israel is also unacceptable. If someone were rolling grenades into your house, wouldn't you take action to protect yourself?

 
At 7/21/2006 5:01 PM, Blogger Always On Watch said...

From today's Washington Times:

Hezbollah has dug dozens of bunkers in the difficult hill country in Lebanon close to the Israeli border, some as much as 130 feet deep, from which fighters can emerge at night for forays against Israeli positions, according to Israeli military officers.

Numerous mines have been planted by Hezbollah against personnel and armor, and their mortar squads have the area zeroed in.

According to Israeli intelligence sources cited in newspaper reports, the bunkers were dug deep apparently to withstand the bunker-buster bombs such as the ones Israel dropped on suspected Hezbollah bunkers this week.

Hezbollah fighters can ride out the heavy artillery and air attacks in the bunkers, which are fitted with communications equipment to remain in touch with headquarters and adequate supplies for a long stay below ground....

When Israel pulled out of Lebanon in 2000, it was after years of skirmishing with Hezbollah in which the Shi'ite militia proved itself an efficient guerrilla force. Since then, thousands of Hezbollah fighters have undergone training in Iran, which has also provided Hezbollah advanced armaments as well as intelligence and communications capabilities it did not have previously....

 
At 7/21/2006 5:01 PM, Blogger Jason_Pappas said...

Blaming Bush … BDS. The problem in Lebanon is that they don’t have the will to deal with the Islamo-fascists that are using their country as a base to wage war against Israel. Bush didn’t do this … Iran did this. The problem with Iraq is the Iraqis and their culture, which is conducive to supporting tyrants like Saddam and, I fear, Shiite theocrats supported by Iran. The problem with Iran isn’t that Bush squashed the nascent democracy movement but Iranian theocrats did.

Notice the pattern: Islamic Iran, Iran, Iran … not Bush, Bush, Bush. But Ducky has an extreme case of BDS … Bush Deraignment Syndrome.

 
At 7/21/2006 5:05 PM, Blogger Always On Watch said...

I just spotted the following at Mike's America:

"Pacifism is objectively pro-fascist. This is elementary common sense. If you hamper the war effort of one side, you automatically help out that of the other. Nor is there any real way of remaining outside such a war as the present one. In practice, 'he that is not with me is against me.'"-- George Orwell

War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself.--John Stuart Mill

 
At 7/21/2006 5:25 PM, Blogger Always On Watch said...

I see that Murtha agrees with Duck:

Pennsylvania anti-war Congressman John Murtha Thursday said the U.S. military's continued presence in Iraq is emboldening America's potential enemies by depleting American resources that could be used in other conflicts around the world.

"Who wants us in Iraq? North Korea, Iran, China, Russia and al Qaeda," Murtha told a luncheon gathering in Washington, D.C....


But Murtha maintains that the problem is that our military is overextended. Slight difference there from the NYT article which Duck cited.

 
At 7/21/2006 5:41 PM, Blogger Jason_Pappas said...

Check out what Allen Weingarten wrote at my blog (scroll down to comment #14.) Damn, I wish he had a blog, he’s good.

 
At 7/21/2006 5:42 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/07/19/AR2006071901787_pf.html

Iraq is Lost GOP slowly realizing.
And Buchanan is right on Lebanon-Israel is brutally at fault. When it leaves the West Bank as the UN ordered long ago, then talk to me about Islam being the enemy.

 
At 7/21/2006 5:43 PM, Blogger Always On Watch said...

Jason,
I saw! Wow! He does need his own blog or to post at IBA.

 
At 7/21/2006 5:46 PM, Blogger Always On Watch said...

Anonymous,
Yes, I read that article in the WaPo. Now, is Iraq lost, or is it that the West doesn't have the stomach for achieving a complete victory, or is it the matter of a political football? There are at least those three schools of thought.

 
At 7/21/2006 5:56 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

MR Ducky:

Mr. Pappas has very good points. What needs to driven much deeper is the FACT that whatever is happening in the world today has developed over GENERATIONS!!! Blaming Bush, or even his dad, or even my favorite punching bag Clinton, for the current Middle Eastern situation is so short sighted as to be laughable.

Islam, as promoted by its Psychotic paedophile instigator, has been around for 1400 years and is STILL THE SAME PROBLEM IT AS STARTED.

You raise ONE good point. Paraphrased, What do we do, kill more Muslims??

Unfortunately, unless you can figure out a way to capture them and launch them to a hapitable planet somewhere they can't come back, that IS part of the answer. The true believers that are indoctrinated in the Extreme forms of Islam will need to be killed, just like animals with rabies. (dying for the cause IS what they desire)

Outside of that the WORLD will have to become involved in either banning the Quran (yeah, right) or working with the pacifist sects to change the direction of Islam through the accepted interpretations of the writings.

How this is done will be up to the Muslims themselves as to whether they desire to STOP BEING THE PROBLEM by STOPPING the radical preachings in their communities.

 
At 7/21/2006 6:41 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

AOW:

I wonder who the NEGATIVE MR Anonymous is?? WaPoo just won't pass up a chance to make things look bad.

I think we have a couple more years before any definitive statements can be made.

War ebbs and flows. Yesterday I read an article where the Sunnis want the US to stay now because of the Shiaa militia slaughtering them. Last year it was exactly opposite. The Iraqi army is slowly starting to exert control and, with the help of the US, will have decimated a lot of these groups before the US substantially reduces its manpower.

I think the elections are a bigger motivator in these politicians moving that the actual situation on the ground in Iraq.

 
At 7/21/2006 7:16 PM, Blogger Always On Watch said...

Anonymous,
We apparently have two anonymouses.

I agree with you about the elections as motivator. When it comes to politicians, they are most interested in votes. Statesmen are few and far between.

How this is done will be up to the Muslims themselves as to whether they desire to STOP BEING THE PROBLEM by STOPPING the radical preachings in their communities.

I heard that topic briefly discussed on FNC around 3:00 or 4:00 today (EDT). CAIR's representative was asked nearly that question. His response: "The Koran doesn't teach terrorism." The interviewer looked doubtful, but didn't respond with Sura 9.

 
At 7/21/2006 7:44 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

To the negative Anonymous:

The UN was bound by law to create an Israel as proscribed by the League of Nations who agreed to the Balfour Treaty.

The English started screwing the Jews by arbitrarily giving away 80% of the Jewish homeland to the Hashemites who they later claimed stole a march on them and TOOK IT (the tribe was so small that claim is ludicrous). They then blocked Jewish immigration into the rest of the Jewish Homeland while allowing illegal Arab immigration continuously. The arabs were not happy with allowing the Jews to BUY THEIR LAND BACK and fough nasty terrorist actions against the Jews, Brits, and their own land selling people until the Brits walked away.

I would point out that during this time the Jews were being oppressed all over Europe culminating in the holocaust. The Brits halted Jewish immigration to Palestine even for Jews running from certain execution.

The UN, picking up this problem, became butt buddies for the Arabs and decided to partition the 20% left to the Jews. The Arabs would not accept even this small amount for Israel and massed their troops to attack. They also expelled between 600,000 and 900,000 Jews from their historical homes in Arab countries world wide.

Now you butthead. Just who has the prior right to this land??? If you wanna go back before the Balfour treaty Arabs only owned the land for a short time. It was owned by Jews, Romans, and a number of others previous to Mohammed and his delusions.

You are a MORON if you think that the Immigrants to Palestine during the British Mandatory period have more right to Palestine than the Jews.

Tell me what the Muslims are going to do about giving land and possesions back to the Jews who were thrown from their homes???

You are an ignorant propagandist who needs to be spanked.

The UN is a corrupt organisation which has done little but harass the only Democratic government in the Middle East that has a valid claim to its own land!!!

You must be a communist if you believe anything coming from the UN since it was organised!!!

 
At 7/21/2006 8:28 PM, Blogger Mr. Ducky said...

To the negative anonymous (the kahanist) , remember that the British had promised Faisal self rule in return for assisting in the overthrow of the Ottomans in WW I.

The British and French sold out Faisal but did reward the European Zionists who had never set foot in the Middle East and hadn't shed blood defeating the Turks.

Now since most Jews in Israel have a European or Russian background it is naive to think you can make clear cut arguments to ownership.

 
At 7/21/2006 8:30 PM, Blogger nanc said...

i could tell you who one of the anonymouses is with both hands tied behind my back - aha!

 
At 7/21/2006 9:35 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

MR SUCKY DUCKY:

A contract requires both sides to fulfill the agreement. Please show the substantive support the Arabs gave the Allies, or just the British, in either WWI or WWII.

For whatever reason (and some of it was anti-semitism) the Brits decided to screw the Jews almost as soon as the Balfour Treaty was signed and start being the Arabs butt buddies.

Instead of reading the Mythology put out by the British Gubmint agent, Lawrence of Arabia, you may want to look into real history and actions taken by real groups.

I would also point out that Faisal got screwed also as his land was given to others while the Eastern Palestinians were saddled with his regime who were not native to Eastern Palestine.

Again, mythology, instead of fact, rears its head in the LEFTY mind. Are we surprised???

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

So MR SUCKY since the Indians in the US that own businesses have Asian ancestry, that precludes them from having a LEGAL RIGHT to the land they bought?? You mythologists are such a HOOT!! HOOT!! HOOT!!

Now, since those Jews you were speaking of have Russian or European backgrounds, does that mean if we trace their ancestry back we will find a tribe in the European continent that they descended from???

Of course not you MORON!!!!

Does the fact that over 75% of the so called original Palestinian refugees had immigrated to Palestine within 10 years of the creation of modern Israel mean that they are descended from peoples who lived in Palestine since before the Romans cleaned it out???

Of course not you MORON!!!

Does the fact that Jews lived in the area the Romans named Palestine before the Romans and continuously after the Romans mean that they have a RIGHT TO BE ON THE LAND???

Of course it does you MORON.

Does the fact that the Jews from the diaspora who came back to Palestine and BOUGHT LAND FROM LOCALS OR THE Ottoman Empire mean they have a right to that land???

Of COURSE IT DOES YOU MORON!!!

Does the fact that the UN decided to partition a chunk of land between one clearly delineated party (the Jews) and another party that had no history, no leaders, no government, no identity other than ARAB mean that the land should actually belong to them?

Good question, you are getting closer.

Does the fact that the Jews, on their tiny sliver of what was left of what they were promised by the Allies who took the land as spoils of war, fought off enormous odds and RETAINED THE LAND THEY BOUGHT give them the right to stay on that land??

DAMN RIGHT IT DOES!!!!!

Does the fact that a bunch of cry baby losers are still whining about getting their butts whipped in a highly UNFAIR fight in their favor mean that the world should give them anything???

HELL NO!!!!!!

Does the fact that the Israelis offered to allow the so-called Palestinian Refugees to come back if they swore to non-violence and peace mean they don't have to allow the MORONS back now???

Not sure? Lets add, if the Arab leaders rejected this offer AND the UN resolution setting up a method for the return of the refugees mean that they no longer have a right to return now???

Of course it does!!!!

If you would like to read an excellent presentation of the middle east mess try "From Time Immemorial" by Joan Peters. It is very well documented and will help you not to sound so Ignorant and Partisan when you talk about the Middle East.

Virtually everything you and other trolls whine about on these blogs are IslamoNazi TALKING POINTS and have NO FACTUAL BASIS!!!! They have been promoted by Billions of petro dollars and anti-semitism for over 60 years. Many of these points are less than 20 years old and I saw them created out of vacumn!!

Get yourself edumacated BOY!!!!

 
At 7/21/2006 9:51 PM, Blogger nanc said...

it's good to have you back, anonymouse.

 
At 7/21/2006 11:02 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

MR Sucky Ducky reads from the IslamoNazi talking points:

"The British and French sold out Faisal but did reward the European Zionists who had never set foot in the Middle East and hadn't shed blood defeating the Turks."

The British had about 5 battalions of JEWS from Palestine and other countries that fought with them against the Turks by the end of WWI.

The Arabs who fought under Faisal were basically Mercenaries. Without being supplied and paid large amounts, they would NOT FIGHT!!! They also fought when THEY felt like it, which gave little support to the British.

There was ALSO a unit of JEWS fighting for Arab independence with Faisal's people!!!!

Here is a link that is fairly accurate:

http://www.palestinefacts.org/pf_ww1.php

It covers a lot of the history, but, is rather general compared to the book above.

 
At 7/21/2006 11:08 PM, Blogger Jason_Pappas said...

Now since most Jews in Israel have a European or Russian background it is naive to think you can make clear cut arguments to ownership.

More of Ducky's ignorance. About half of the Jews in Israel are decedents of Jews ethnically-cleansed from Islamic lands. Jews were chased from their homes in Morocco to Iran. Jews lived in Egypt 1000 years before Islam existed going back to the Empire established by Alexander’s heirs. Baghdad was about 30% Jewish 80 years ago.

While no Jews dare live in Islamic lands today, 20% of Israelis are Arabs who live better than any Arab nation sans the oil-windfall. Jews can tolerate and even welcome civilized Arabs but Arabs are Nazi-like in their treatment of Jews. Why does the left take the side of our Nazi enemy? Oh, that’s right, Hitler was really a socialist … national socialist but socialist nevertheless. Birds of a feather … Ducks included!

 
At 7/21/2006 11:15 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Oh, and MR SUCKY, I can not claim the honor of being a Kahaneist.

I am german, irish... and a sliver Cherokee reservation injun descent. I was raised Baptist in the San Joaquin Valley around migrant farm workers, red necks...

I have read voraciously for 45 years. The Internet has helped to expand on what I had already started.

Another good book you might want to check out is "The Source", by James A. Michener. You may have heard of him. It started my look into the possibility that the slop in the media and from Popular sources, about the Middle East, might not be the full story!!

HAH!!!

 
At 7/22/2006 12:29 AM, Blogger nanc said...

AHA!

 
At 7/22/2006 5:06 AM, Anonymous gravelrash said...

Might I also recommend "book dropping" Leon Uris' "The Haj" all over your various neighbourhoods???
Check on eBay. You can pick up a dozen used copies for a buck 70!
Send one to Ducky.
(Limit one per customer!)

Mr Ducky:-
"So what's the deal, AOW. How does this "war" progress? Everything will be fine if we kill enough muslims?"

YES.

 
At 7/22/2006 7:31 AM, Blogger Always On Watch said...

Jason,
20% of Israelis are Arabs

A fact not often mentioned.

Anonymous,
I love Michener, but it's been a few decades since I've read The Source. Maybe I'll get the audio version and enjoy a feast for the ears. I know that the audio version is available at my public library. What a tome!

One of my homeschoolers read The Source some years ago. I think that he enjoyed the book in spite of Michener's many tangents.

Have you read Caravans? Graphic descriptions of two "executions."

Oh, and thank you so much for your lengthy comment with all the historical background. I'm still learning in that regard.

Gravelrash,
I've never read The Haj. There's something else for me to get at my local library.

 
At 7/22/2006 3:00 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

AOW,

I wish I had the patience to sit down and be more organised. There is SOOOO much false information that needs correcting, I tend to jump all over the place.

Many others in this great group of blogs have excellent knowledge also. One of the reasons I lurk here. I am always learning reading the posts.

I am amazed that I have learned NOTHING from the trolls. It seems EVERYTHING they offer is well used conventional ignorance. Mostly they can't even offer Propaganda Tomes to back up their ignorance.

 
At 7/22/2006 3:43 PM, Blogger Always On Watch said...

Anonymous,
Many others in this great group of blogs have excellent knowledge also. One of the reasons I lurk here. I am always learning reading the posts.

I, for one, am glad you're lurking.

One of the reasons I love blogging is that I learn so much from certain commenters.

 
At 7/23/2006 3:09 AM, Blogger Mad Zionist said...

Everything will be fine if we kill enough muslims?

Yes.

Is subjugation going to make it less of a problem?

Yes.

Israel's ham handed assault isn't going to do anything but harden opposition and bring Hezbollah back stronger and more militant.

Wrong. Extermination is the only way to deal with vermin.

 
At 7/23/2006 4:53 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

"Israel's ham handed assault isn't going to do anything but harden opposition and bring Hezbollah back stronger and more militant."

If they get more militant they even lose the appeasers!!!

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

 
At 7/23/2006 5:26 PM, Blogger Esther said...

Sad but predictable. I was afraid we were getting more arab doublespeak.

 

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