New Trends In Higher Education?
(All emphases by Always On Watch)
The rejection letters are began arriving last week as most colleges attempt to make their admissions' decisions before April 1. This year, because some 2,000,000 students, two thirds of this years graduates, are applying for a limited number available spaces. As a result, right now high-school seniors are forced to deal with adjusting their dreams and are beginning to consider attending colleges which are low on their lists of preferred schools.
The following is front-page news from the April 7, 2006 edition of the Washington Post: Colleges, Awash in Applications, Turning Away Even Top Students
"...Many of the best-known and most-selective universities announced record low admission rates this year. Yale set an Ivy League record, accepting only 8.6 percent of its 21,099 applicants. Last year, the school accepted 9.7 percent of its 19,448 applicants. Other record lows were reported by Columbia University, 9.6 percent; Stanford University, 11 percent; Massachusetts Institute of Technology, 13 percent; Brown University, 13.8 percent; Dartmouth College, 15.4 percent and the University of Pennsylvania, 17.7 percent.Another factor is playing in this year, perhaps to a greater extent than ever before:
"In the Washington region, George Washington and Johns Hopkins universities reported their lowest acceptance rates ever. GWU accepted 36 percent of its 19,250 applicants, compared with 37.5 percent of the previous year's 19,406 applicants. Hopkins's rate took a particularly precipitous drop, from 35 percent of 11,278 applicants to 27 percent of 13,869 in one year.
"'We were kind of struck by the fact that we were wait-listing and denying students that last year or two years ago we would have been happy to admit,' said John Latting, director of undergraduate admissions. Students, he added, 'that we would have admitted.'"
"The number of rejections is further inflated by the increased number of applications sent out by each student, reacting to the uncertainty of admission and the ease of online and common applications. This produces a self-perpetuating cycle: It is harder to get in, so seniors apply to more schools, which makes it even harder to get in, at least for the most sought-after schools."Many place too much emphasis on the necessity of admission to a top-of-the-line university. According to the above-cited article,
"Research indicates that attendance at a well-known school does not appear to give any long-term advantage to students, at least as measured by incomes 20 years after they graduate. College counselors advise students to look for a school that offers the size and range of courses and activities they are looking for and not worry so much about where it ranks on the U.S. News & World Report list."High-school seniors and their families would do well to remember that the Ivy Leagues are not the only route to a good education and a successful career. Furthermore, I have noticed that the status of attending a prestigious university often matters more to the parents than to their children. As lesser-known colleges receive some of the high-achieving applicants, those schools will improve. I think we may be seeing the beginning of an improvement in higher education. Despite this benefit, however, for certain specialized areas—including medicine and music, just to name two—the choice of institution does matter.
Over the next few weeks, high-school seniors have a difficult decision to make: what to do about being wait-listed. For example, colleges which have sent acceptance letters require a response by May 1, but those which have sent a wait-listed notification will not make their decision until June 1. Catch-22!
Of course, one freshman didn't have to worry about the above issues:
Former Taliban Spokesman Finds New Haven--at YaleHashemi grabbed up only one available space, but that space is at Yale.
"The Taliban’s former spokesman, Rahmatullah Hashemi, is now an undergraduate at Yale University, The New York Times reveals..."
posted by Always On Watch @ 4/07/2006 08:30:00 AM
27 comments
27 Comments:
I like to remind people with children to consider the education and not the “designer label” of the school. The conservative think tank, ISI, has a college guide.
I agree in part with the article. Yes, 20 years after graduation, the school doesn’t matter any more. Of the three owners of my company only one has an Ivy League education. I actually give tests to prospective hires and I find there’s little correlation between performance and school (or even past employer.)
However, for the first job, going to a named school does help when applying to most major corporations. But that means mom & pop cough-up an extra 40-60k just to help junior get that first job. Some people get around this by going to an inexpensive school followed by a one-year graduate program at a named-school.
Personally, I never really had an interest in Ivy League schools. This was probably a good thing since I was mostly a B to an A- student. Athletics and other interests were often put ahead of late-night studying. Still though, for the thousands of hard working American students who dream of going to Princeton or Yale, we should be saving these slots for Americans and not the rich children of Saudi princes.
Jason,
for the first job, going to a named school does help when applying to most major corporations. But that means mom & pop cough-up an extra 40-60k just to help junior get that first job. Some people get around this by going to an inexpensive school followed by a one-year graduate program at a named-school.
My UVA degree opened the doors for a position in the public-school system. Once employed in the county system, I was encouraged NOT to get a post-grad degree because it would price me out of reach of the county's budget. Now, however, most systems encourage that geting that master's and Ph.D. But I've noticed that, insofar as actual teaching goes, those more advanced degrees sometimes result in the teachers' being unable to "get down to the students' level," particularly at the early-elementary level.
Later, however, when I was doing the hiring at a private school, I found that graduates of the smaller schools were very competent and willing to accept the lower salary we offered. Frankly, many of the education courses in the larger schools are filled with impractical tripe, thrown out the window in the reality of the classroom once one begins teaching.
I know lots of young adults who went to a relatively unknown college, then proceeded to the graduate level at a big-name institution.
Furthermore, once employed after graduation, newbies usually have to prove themselves on the job before getting a permanent position. Some of the Ivy-League graduates do well in that regard, some don't.
The roast for Always on the Watch is on my blog. We are serving roast duck.
The Duck shows how out of touch he is with his last comment. The seat that was filled by Taliban boy most likely was taken from a hard working immigrant not a blue blood
Your experience is similar to mine, AOW. There are some people in my company that believe a degree from Columbia is automatic proof of competence. I’ve tried to warn them but they had to learn the hard way. Some grads can’t do the details but can pontificate on broad generalities (good on an interview.) In other words, they are good BS artists.
However, I hired one Columbia freshman as a summer student who does better work than others with a Masters! On the other hand, I was pressured to consider another Columbia grad for demographic reasons but he couldn’t pass my test.
We have quite a few grads from the State Univ of New York and local Catholic colleges. There isn’t much of a pattern in terms of performance. I have to judge the individual. And that’s the way it should be. Perhaps common sense can’t be taught but, unfortunately, it can be destroyed by miss-education.
Duck,
Yale has decided that there is more to be gained by exposing the taliban to a western education than admitting one more inbred 5th generation legacy.
I'm not sure that you can claim that Hashemi isn't inbred, but I'll skip that aspect for the moment.
Actually, according to the author of Faith at War, having exposure to Western education doesn't seem to correlate with moderation of Muslims. I'm not sure that information is on the author's web site, but his book made that statement at the beginning portion of his book.
Jason,
What idiot thinks you learn to love American values in today's American university?
Most major universities--and some of the small colleges as well--teach that Western civilization is the source of all the world's problems. My neighbor's son attended university 1987-1992; he came home spouting his new-found philosophy after just one semester.
In our universities respect for every culture is taught in nearly all the courses--respect for all cultures other than our Western one, that is.
Iran Watch,
it's the physics, biological sciences and the chemistry classes that concern me.
Why are we so bent on teaching our enemies how to destroy us?
Crusader,
Many who are of Arab or Persian or Pakistani descent are in the medical profession here in the United States. Some are Muslims, of course--not all.
But a Muslima who is a dentist is not following the strictest tenets of Islam.
I would note to Ducky that the Fedayeen Saddam was beheading people in the streets of Iraq long before we took out the Baathist regime. Beheadings are faily common in Islamic countries.
faily = fairly
Mustang,
we are governed by IDIOTS.
Trust you to cut through all the nonsense and to come up with the answer.
But if we can elect Beamish in '08, we can remedy part of the problem. He'll completely remake our government. :)
BTW, I saw what you said at Beak's, at my cyber roast. What to say? You are my dearest friend in the blogosphere. And I appreciate all the compliments you so graciously gave.
I will, of course, leave a response over at Beak's. Later. We're between t'storms here.
Beamish,
Beheadings are faily common in Islamic countries.
Somewhere in the last few articles, Farmer left an incredibly graphic link with pics. Here it is. Gruesome stuff.
But if we can elect Beamish in '08, we can remedy part of the problem. He'll completely remake our government. :)
I will conquer the Earth in 100 days or resign.
Mr. Beamish, as commander in chief, I would urge you to recall John Kerry to active duty and place him in the lead river boat so that he can: once again amaze us with his heroics --- or get killed, whichever occurs first.
Ahem. I would like to be Mr. Beamish's Secretary of State. There wouldn't be any more visas issued to any Ibins, you can be sure of that.
Future-President Beamish,
Mustang is with us! He is multi-talented. So even if you choose Jason as Secretary of State (I think I heard that possibility mentioned elsewhere), Mustang can still have a position in your Cabinet. Can't he? Can't he? As a Marine, he knows all about search-and-destroy.
I can just see Mustang as your press secretary, though he's more of an action type. No more trouble from the White House Press Corps. Bwahahahaha! Assuming you would even allow the existence of the Press Corps. Hehehe.
Of course I would allow the existence of the Press Corps. I will not change the US Constitution. I will change the amount of land it applies to.
Mustang would have to be my Secretary of Target Selection.
OK,Beamish for Pres, Mustang for Secretary of State, Jason for Chief of Staff, and now (drum roll), Ralph Peters for SecDef!
AOW,
"I was encouraged NOT to get a post-grad degree because it would price me out of reach of the county's budget."
Does anyone ever wonder why government doesn't work? Let's hear it for punishing excellence!
Ducky,
"Well I'll tell you mussolini ... I don't know why we would object to a radical muslim attending Yale and being thouroughly exposed to western ideas..."
First, by going to Yale, who says they are being exposed to Western ideas? And then there's the problem that for the overwhelming majority of cases, by the time someone is college age, it's difficult to impossible to change his mindset.
But then, Yale is a privately owned entity, and they can admit anyone they want.
Mussolini,
"If education can mellow muslims like the Danish Naser Khader, then we should be spending our war money to build western schools staffed by western teachers in Islamic countries.
"Being that murder is all that is taught in Islamic schools, we certainly would do well to follow such a strategy."
You think (maybe) that you're being facetious, but you hit the nail on the head.
For most people, it's essentially all over by the time they are through puberty.
AOW,
"My neighbor's son attended university 1987-1992; he came home spouting his new-found philosophy after just one semester."
That is so sad. But that's exactly what happened in this country in the mid 1800s, when American boys went to Europe, by then under the heavy hand of Kant-Hegel-Marx, and came home with their new-found ideas to enter every field including politics, journalism, and education.
Since it's all over for most people by the time they are through puberty, how can this happen? It happens because around puberty, kids - even the ones with nose rings and backwards baseball caps - are looking for a "roadmap" for their lives, and if they aren't given one from about five on up, then they'll absorb it from whatever's going on around them, and these days, that's not so great.
Today, the collectivist values are unopposed by anything else, so they become the values held by so many of us just by default. The kids going off to college don't just suddenly acquire all these ideas, they have been poured into an empty vessel, ready to be filled.
Jason,
"I once read that having a Western education makes Muslims hate America more."
Yeah; apparently, it goes something like this: "I have been educated (or born) in a Western country, but I will prove to you, my brothers, that it has only served to make me a stronger Muslim." Really - they often think that they have to prove that they haven't been "tainted" by Western influences.
AOW,
"Why are we so bent on teaching our enemies how to destroy us?"
Isn't it amazing? That's what worries me about what we're doing now in Iraq.
Cubed,
Not only was I actively discouraged from getting post-grad work done. When personnel interviewed me, the director said, "I'm not sure we want to hire you to teach. You have an A average, cume and also in your major." I came home and cried over that one. When I came to my sense, I reported this personnel director to the County Superintendent of Education; I knew him personally when he was the principal at a private school I attended.
But I have to wonder if such a practice didn't put many under-achievers into teaching positions. Furthermore, I have many friends, eminently qualified for various positions in the county system, and they never get the promotions. Hmmmm....
As to European propaganda pervading our universities, as you pointed out, that's been going on for a couple of centuries. Thanks for the reminder.
From my observations, so called prestigious unies and high schools in Australia don't give any real educational advantages.
They are vital for networking and placement in any future establishments.
Mr. Ducky,
I believe it is the pervasive university-level idiocy in American education that fails to teach Marxism as a failed economic theory rigorously clung to by nostalgic genocidal maniacs and other kinds of leftists.
AOW, good grief; your experience was worse than I thought. It's obscene.
"But I have to wonder if such a practice didn't put many under-achievers into teaching positions. Furthermore, I have many friends, eminently qualified for various positions in the county system, and they never get the promotions."
Hey, AOW, you know perfectly well that you don't have to wonder!
Ducky,
Re: "propaganda," you said:
"You mean stuff like Newtonian and quantum physics?"
From Encarta: "propaganda (1): Information or publicity put out by an organization or government to spread and promote a policy, idea, doctrine, or cause. (2) deceptive or distorted information that is systematically spread."
Newtonian physics is fact, and it spread because it could be demonstrated to be fact. It was not some policy that some government wanted to promote.
I might have to spot you on the quantum mechanics, though. My stepfather was a theorectical physicist and vice president of MIT, and even he had his doubts.
Mussolini,
Plenty of Koranic verses to support jihad. I rather suspect that those particular verses are among the first to be memorized in the madrassahs.
Mussolini,
"Islam is deadly serious - and death is all they're being taught."
Trust me, Mussolini, I know you're right. I think I used the term "facetious" because the task of educating the entire Muslim population of school children would be such an enormously difficult task.
Difficult or not, though, you are right - it's the only way their madness can be stopped.
What shocks me is the lack of education the dolts seem to come out with. Almost everyone I know who is truly educated took it upon themselves to educate themselves above and beyond what was required of their universities, be they Ivy League or not. I know that my Father for one truly hated the Ivy League MBAs that would get hired by either himself or others at his company, as they knew only of models of business and nothing of the actual practice.
I need to post and make available a beautifully racist scholarshihp that floated about the Anthropology departments of American universities for many years. This was a scholarship for $10,000 per year for doctoral students in Anthropology based on ethnicity. Instead of simply saying "non-whites not eligible", this absurd ad went on to simply list just about every ethnicity on the planet other than European. Seeing as I was eligible for this but came from a wealthy family whereas most doctoral students I knew were white males from less prominent families, I always found this the epitome of hypocrisy. But we must level that playing field, of course! Just beware if you are a white man trying to work your way up these days.
Class came up on my own site the other day, as I typed an article recited by one of my blog partners, who happens to be a white male who worked his way through everything in the world. I agree with his points, but the article essentially blasts every family like mine in the US. It would confuse Ducky half to death were he to read it, I'm afraid.
Ducky, by the way, are you stalking Always On Watch, or is this site simply on your schedule of daily rounds?
I think we may be seeing the beginning of an improvement in higher education.
This will only happen when we get rid of professors like our friend LOA.
EB,
Looks as though LOA wimped out.
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