Saturday, August 19, 2006

Letter Which Appeared In The WaPo

(All emphases by Always On Watch)

The following letter appeared in the Friday, August 18, 2006 Washington Post:
"When he commented on the arrest of a handful of British Muslims accused of plotting to blow up U.S.-bound civilian aircraft ["Plot to Bomb U.S.-Bound Jets Is Foiled; Britain Arrests 24 Suspected Conspirators," front page, Aug. 11], President Bush said the case was "a stark reminder that this nation is at war with Islamic fascists." The president's use of that term is misleading, unfortunate and unacceptable.

"We, as peaceful and justice-loving Muslims, deeply resent the implication that 'fascism' is an integral part of our faith tradition, or that it is condoned by those of us who practice the religion of Islam. In fact, there is absolutely no evidence that supports the legitimacy of any form of state-sponsored violence and injustice, either in our revealed text, the holy Koran, or in the traditions of Islam.

"Islam is constantly referred to by the news media as the theological basis for terrorism and, now, fascism.

"But the same media never associated the Catholic faith as a root cause of Italian fascism under Benito Mussolini in the 1930s, or the Jewish faith as a religious motivation for the violent, anti-Palestinian conduct of many Israeli settlers in the West Bank and Gaza. Islam, alone among the three major Abrahamic faiths, has been tarred with the brush of legitimized extremism and violence in the name of God. This is an association that has no basis in our faith, and it is an association that we vigorously reject.

ESAM OMEISH

President

Muslim American Society

Falls Church
The following should be taken into consideration:
"....Kill those who join other gods with Allah wherever you find them; besiege them, seize them, lay in wait for them with every kind of ambush...."(Sura 9:5).

"When you encounter the unbelievers, strike off their heads, until ye have made a great slaughter among them...."(Sura 47:4).

"....Make war upon such of those to whom the Scriptures have been given as believe not in Allah, or in the Last Day, and who forbid not what Allah and His Apostle have forbidden....until they pay tribute..." (Sura 9:29).

"Say to the infidels: If they desist, what is now past shall be forgiven them; but if they return, they have already before them the doom of the ancients! Fight then against them till strife be at an end, and the religion be all of it Allah's." (Sura 8:39).

"Proclaim a grievious penalty to those who reject faith." (Sura 9:3)."
The Sura, a chapter in the Koran, is supposed to be the last 'revelation' by Allah and, by Islamic definition, abrogates previous verses.

32 Comments:

At 8/19/2006 11:42 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

It should be noted that the Surahs are ranked generally by size and NOT by date of writing.

Surah 9 could have been written after Surah 35.

This is important as mentioned. Abrogation means later writings contradictory to earlier writings REPLACE them.

Anyone know where to find information on the dating of the Surahs???

 
At 8/19/2006 11:51 AM, Blogger Always On Watch said...

Anonymous,
It should be noted that the Surahs are ranked generally by size and NOT by date of writing.

Surah 9 could have been written after Surah 35.


Correct!

As to determining the dating of Surahs, there are specific guides which contain that information--or so I've heard. But I don't know the titles of the specific books.

Online, you might start with Answering Islam. Another source might be Islam In Focus.

Perhaps other commenters will come by with additional information.

 
At 8/19/2006 12:25 PM, Anonymous religion of pieces said...

Why did Allah contradict himself so much in the koran? Was he losing his memory when he wrote it?

Has he since gone completely geriatric - we haven't heard anything from him for 1400 years?

Maybe somewhere in another dimension, there's a rest home for superannuated demons, where one old geezer bores the other residents with constant repetition of how he used to do one of the best God-impersonation acts in the universe, together with his side-kick Mo Hamhead.

 
At 8/19/2006 12:27 PM, Blogger Always On Watch said...

ROP,
Why did Allah contradict himself so much in the koran?

To accommodate MTP's salacious and blood-thirsty ambitions? I'm thinking of Aisha in that salacious reference, of course.

 
At 8/19/2006 12:32 PM, Blogger Brooke said...

I imagine that when an old pervert completely fabricates a religion, it must be difficult to keep continuity intact.

As for that article in the paper about how fascism is not related to Islam... I would like to refer the author to Hezbollah, Hamas, Iran, and Syria, just to name a few. Perhaps he's heard of them?

 
At 8/19/2006 12:33 PM, Blogger Brooke said...

Oh, and what about Shar'ia law, which is oppression, violence, sexism and fascism, and is based soley and COMPLETELY on Islam?

 
At 8/19/2006 12:36 PM, Blogger Always On Watch said...

Additional info on MAS (Muslim American Society). Worth the time to check out!

 
At 8/19/2006 12:36 PM, Blogger Always On Watch said...

Brooke,
There you go, with those inconvenient facts again. LOL.

 
At 8/19/2006 1:13 PM, Anonymous Seth said...

It would seem that all western-based Muslim organizations are "all Takkiya, all the time", and merely additional fronts in Islam's war on civilization.

A bunch of folks better wake up soon, or they may not be waking up at all.

 
At 8/19/2006 1:27 PM, Anonymous Hodja said...

When Muhammed first got his 'revallations' in Mecca, he had few followers, so then he got nice peaceful messages from Allah. When the meccans threw him out, he went to Medina, there he got more followers and his life began revolving around war and conquest and of course he then got the violent parts of the coran.
I think there is a commented coran where you can see which suras are meccan and which are medinan.

This book gives some of the answers about chronology:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0884198847/104-0516370-4377556?v=glance&n=283155

I have read it. Recommended.

 
At 8/19/2006 3:09 PM, Blogger Michael van der Galien said...

Hodja: Indeed -> Muhammed later turned into a tiran. He advocated peace first, when he came in a position of power -> due to having a lot of followers, he suddenly seems to have changed into a hatefilled murderer..

 
At 8/19/2006 4:30 PM, Anonymous Mustang said...

It is true that any historian worth his or her salt can find a number of examples where religious leaders have acted violently and, note this important difference, outside Judeo-Christian traditions. For example, we cannot for one minute pretend that the subjugation of others in the name of Christianity (e.g., God, Glory, and Gold -- perpetrated by the Spanish in the new world) never happened. It is an interesting footnote, however, that Spanish Catholics had a 750-year tradition of Islam before the Columbian experience.

Still, it is not possible to compare fascist Islam with any Judeo-Christian period for this reason: It is one thing to have a religion perverted by an occasional abhorrent leader, and quite another thing to have an entire religion founded on the principles of violence, conquest, and the subjugation of others.

Perhaps we should wonder why the "Inquisition" could have ever happened, and then ask ourselves, was it because of the way Islam was imposed on those who were forced to convert to Islam on the Iberian Peninsula? Was the inquisition a "fire in the lake" in its own time? Was this a case of evil burning away evil -- cancelling one another out, as it were?

History is interesting, but we should learn from it. Muslims may choose to delude themselves about the so-called "religion of peace" and of course, that makes everything logical again. Only someone who is delusional would want to blow up innocent people and then claim to be continuing the work of a pedophile. Sheesh.

Now AOW, you’re the expert here . . . how many fatwas have I earned today?

 
At 8/19/2006 4:38 PM, Blogger Ogre said...

A good point I heard from someone the other day -- what difference does it make when CAIR and MAS speak? For example, take them at their word -- I know they're lying, but just for a second, let's pretend they're not. My response is, "So what?"

In Germany, how many non-evil, non-Nazis were there? Who cares? What difference did they make? None at all. Zero! They could claim they were peaceful all they want, but it didn't make ANY difference. Same here.

Even if CAIR and MAS are peaceful, SO WHAT? The terrorists speak for Islam UNTIL CAIR STOPS THEM -- whether they like it or not.

 
At 8/19/2006 5:40 PM, Blogger MissingLink said...

"But the same media never associated the Catholic faith as a root cause of Italian fascism under Benito Mussolini in the 1930s,...

This is because Catholicism had nothing to with fascism.

Just a thought.

 
At 8/19/2006 6:10 PM, Blogger benning said...

Jeepers! We've offended the Muslims!

Pteh!

They are what they are. The name is meaningless. Murderous Islamic Fanatics? Would that be better?

 
At 8/19/2006 6:52 PM, Blogger Always On Watch said...

Mustang,
It is one thing to have a religion perverted by an occasional abhorrent leader, and quite another thing to have an entire religion founded on the principles of violence, conquest, and the subjugation of others.

Hear, hear! And I'd also point out that, according to Muslim apostate Ali Sina, Islam is the only currently-practiced religion which doesn't have the equivalent of The Golden Rule.

Perhaps we should wonder why the "Inquisition" could have ever happened, and then ask ourselves, was it because of the way Islam was imposed on those who were forced to convert to Islam on the Iberian Peninsula?

I've read that some of the techniques used by the Spanish Inquisition were learned from the Moors. I believe that Hugh Fitzgerald of Jihad Watch wrote an essay about that very topic, but I've seen the material elsewhere too.

History is interesting, but we should learn from it.

As I've mentioned before, Arabic doesn't have a past tense as we understand that tense; I learned that from an ESL student from Saudi and read material on verb tenses in Patai's The Arab Mind. And Newsweek has finally almost acknowledged the conundrum about Arabs' not being able to put things into the past: "Struggles against the infidel are never-ending; to them, a 12th-century crusade was only yesterday."

So...if one doesn't have a past tense, can one learn from history, which by definition is in the past? Just a thought.

Let's see, Mustang, how many fatwas for you? Well, I'm not a muslima, so I guess that I can't issue any to you. Offhand, I'd say that you qualify for at least one per paragraph, so that makes a minimum of four. :)

 
At 8/19/2006 7:20 PM, Anonymous religion of pieces said...

"Arabic doesn't have a past tense as we understand that tense"

The Koran is written in Arabic. Allah doesn't have a memory because he continually contradicts himself. Allah is not aware of the past - he only knows one illogical, jumbled, confusing present where today, yesterday and 1000 years ago are all the same.

Islam seems more like a severe mental illness than a religion, - especially if you include all the 'Obsessive Compulsive' stuff like kissing carpets and bowing to a meteorite 5 times a day.

 
At 8/19/2006 9:39 PM, Blogger WomanHonorThyself said...

It is one thing to have a religion perverted by an occasional abhorrent leader, and quite another thing to have an entire religion founded on the principles of violence, conquest, and the subjugation of others....Exactly!...and we need to stop caring squat bout what C-A-I-R says and does..!..great post AOW!

 
At 8/19/2006 11:10 PM, Anonymous Debbie said...

If the Muslims say they are not facist, then It must be so We all know they only speak the truth.

 
At 8/20/2006 3:49 AM, Blogger Denny said...

Since fascism is defined as a political theory advocating an authoritarian hierachical government, and as hundreds of millions of Muslims want sharia law instituted around the world, I would say that at least half of all adherants to Islam are fascists. Certainly what always on watch has copied from their very own scriptures supports the concept that this religion teaches, and many of its followers advocate, IslamoFASCISM.
Denny

 
At 8/20/2006 7:35 AM, Blogger Always On Watch said...

I cross-posted this blog article at Northern Virginiastan, where Northern Virginiastan left an important comment:

From the letter in the WaPo:

there is absolutely no evidence that supports the legitimacy of any form of state-sponsored violence and injustice, either in our revealed text, the holy Koran, or in the traditions of Islam.

Anaylsis by Northern Virginiastan:

By this definition, I guess Hizbollah would be exempt, as it is merely Iran's proxy and HAMAS wouldn't qualify, as "Palestine" is not a sovereign country.

It bears repeating, again and again, MAS is the U.S. arm of the Muslim Brotherhood.

 
At 8/20/2006 9:33 PM, Blogger Jason_Pappas said...

I’m overjoyed how people (here and elsewhere) are learning so much about Islam that the usual Islamic propaganda doesn’t stand a chance with us. These days I end my responses to Muslims with “don’t bother lying anymore; we know the truth about Islam.” Still there must be enough ignorant or intimidated Infidels that Islamic propagandists continue to lie. Our work isn’t done, yet.

The chronological order of the Suras is given in the Hadiths of Salih Bukhari (most definitive) and Salih Muslim.

 
At 8/21/2006 1:02 AM, Blogger Michael Linn Jones said...

Well AOW, the letter sure sold me. Now I know that we are dealing with deranged individuals who have absolutely no connection to the religion of peace.

Also, the U.S. forced the peace-loving Japanese to invade China and Korea and we blew up our own ships in Pearl Harbor to persecute an innocent collection of generals.

And.....there is a bridge in Brooklyn that I have been given an option on buying. Sounds like a good deal to me.

Revisionist BLATHER! I have the image of the Palestinians dancing in the streets on 9/11. THAT is the result of peaceful, loving teachings? I say to the author of that letter...don't go stepping in the stuff you're trying to sell me.

 
At 8/21/2006 7:52 AM, Blogger Always On Watch said...

Jason & Michael,
And it's not just commenters here who are seeing through the taqiyya. The cartoonifada had an unintended outcome--people who weren't previously much interesting in finding out about Islam started doing research. Signs reading "Behead Those Who Insult Islam" have a way of startling infidels.

 
At 8/21/2006 11:03 AM, Blogger nanc said...

aow - diane west has a continuing article this morning at jwr:

http://jewishworldreview.com/0806/west082106.php3

"ala" in the hebrew means "curse" and is used, i believe, 12 times in this manner in the old testament. just a bit of morning trivia.

 
At 8/21/2006 1:16 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

AOW,

Isn't it amazing how calm and peaceful looking those adherents to the "Religion of Peace" are when promoting beheadings, violence, general mayhem, and GENOCIDE?!?!?!

Especially when it is over IMPORTANT things like insulting CARTOONS!?!?!?!?!

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

 
At 8/21/2006 6:21 PM, Blogger Always On Watch said...

Nanc,
I saw the first portion of that Diana West article. Off to check on the next part right now.

Anonymous,
Over a bunch of cartoons? Never ceases to astound me.

 
At 8/21/2006 6:22 PM, Blogger Always On Watch said...

Nanc,
So far, only part one has appeared.

 
At 8/22/2006 12:27 AM, Blogger Pim's Ghost said...

AOW--I have wondered the same thing about the Muslim influence on Spanish culture after all those CENTURIES. I'm 1/4 Spanish, but the family is from Northern Spain, which was never conquered, but they're still very Spanish/Cuban. I know few of them though, and it's hard to say being so far from the old country what they just picked up living in the Cuban communities in FL. But do notice the attitude towards the protection and "ownership" of women relatives (if you're in the cultures even as they've spread to this hemisphere). Hell, I even had a Mexican-American roommate once who wouldn't even let me change a lightbulb because he was the man. Yeah, I moved out.

Chronology--I do know of a koran chronology chart over at www.kafirnation.com (an AWESOME site), but the chart links to different chapters. When I tried it it didn't match my koran, I might check it when I have more time and then just write one of the KN folks asking about it. Actually, either of my korans. Check and see if you have the same problem there, it's just in the left sidebar. I might have just had no time to do it right, but it is a nice neat chart. Actually, I found it. Right here.

 
At 8/22/2006 12:37 AM, Blogger Pim's Ghost said...

Actually, there are only a few mistakes. Each link takes you to a university site on the koran to the various translations of each surah. Interestingly, at the KN chart the part of the koran I despise perhaps the most, 5.) "The Table" is listed as the last one actually written in the Chronological Koran at KafirNation. Very very interesting. I have long wanted to re-read the koran in chronological order. The breakdown of the madman and the "absolute power" axiom and all that.

Ibn Warraq's discussion of this topic in Why I'm NOT a Muslim is also VERY enlightening, and my main source of info. on the subject other than Spencer.

 
At 8/23/2006 7:12 AM, Blogger Always On Watch said...

Pim's Ghost,
Thanks for those links! I'll check them out.

The Muslim influence on Spain was quite extensive, particularly in the southern half of the country. I was a Spanish major and focused on the literature and history of Spain. My Spanish professors were not pc and spoke quite often about that influence from the Moors. In fact, my term paper for Spanish civilization was "The Muslim Influence on the Architecture of Spain." Of course, I wrote that paper in Spanish--some 35 years ago. I think I still have it in storage. Maybe I'll dig is out to see what other influences I might have mentioned.

One of my Spanish professors--his speciality was the Medieval Period--mentioned that the Spanish aversity to working with one's hands (considereed a dishonor) stemmed from the Moorish influence; he also mentioned the direct and indirect Moorish influence on the Conquistadors. I don't recall his mentioning the treatment of women, but he may have.

You mentioned Ibn Warraq. I have his book Why I'm Not a Muslim. Very powerful!

 
At 8/24/2006 10:27 AM, Blogger Mark said...

I think it is high time for the West to learn some lessons from the Spanish experience of the reconquest of Andalucia. We're going to need them in the coming years!

 

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